Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This thread would be half as long if all of the ad hominem attacks were edited out. If people would only realize that they diminish any valid argument they might have by resorting to person attacks.

I actually see no other way to get a definite answer than going out and waiting to get bumped, then petitioning harrassment after attempting to get away.

In the petition you can just link the gm answer thread and point to the line saying "However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis."

Guess this is the only way to get a definite answer.

Definite answer with case by case judgments?

Mag's, yes thats a definite answer, but then you'll yield to the fact that bumping a freighter again after it has attempted to get away makes concequent bumps harrassment? Thats said there also, "persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment"

Thats what the answer must be about, or is that what it is ? What effort means hasn't been in anyway said.

The real exploit is the fact that by bumping someone they are in affect achieving the exact same thing a warp scram/disrupter does. Activating modules on someone does not in itself induce Concord hence why you can activate remote reps and such. The real issue is aggression: Engaging in aggression against another capsuleer is what causes the Concord response.

Bumping a freighter is an aggressive act, no one would deny that. It achieves the identical result of a warp scram which everyone would agree should result in a criminal flag. Thus it is quite illogical to not see how the same thing should apply to bumping out of alignment.

The bumping makes you suspect solution has been presented before; where ships in hi-sec pass through one another by default. The reasonable arguments against are the ones that state:
- inability to use bumping as a mechanic at all (think mining fleets)
- any suspect bumping solution would make people inadvertently go suspect.

Thus there is a two part solution to this entire problem:
1) Ships should pass through one another in hi-sec unless in fleet, in corp, in war, in a limited engagement, or where one party is suspect.
2) Ships should be able to turn suspect with the click of the button.

The result is gankers can still bump freighters out of alignment, however must enable a suspect flag in order to do so. This gives the player being bumped a tool to retaliate with, which is very important in keeping freighter bumping balanced.

Even if you don't think bumping is an exploit, I don't know how anyone could argue the approach above isn't more balanced at the very least.

Because any time you add another artificial flag it's not balanced. The goal is to reduce the artificial flags with real(in a game context), viable mechanics. Suddenly phase morphing erry ship in high sec is not a real(in a game context), viable mechanic. Your statement is just another 'I don't want to be pro-active about the situation, I just want other people to take care of my problem for me' statement. That's why any change to freighters that allowed modules that could put the total cargo over 1 mil m3 would have to be accompanied with a reduction in freighter capacity, so there wasn't a 'Oh you can't put that there' artificial flag implemented on top of it.


To be completely honest, you should be able to see which ships looks suspicious on a gate as soon as you arrive(Any frigate sitting at 0 in the gate, not moving, who may or may not yellow box you, depending on how good he is, for example). When those ships are there, you should also take precautions to avoid being their target, not just continue on like nothing happened. This 'Ships pass through each other is just silly.

No it doesn't, not in any way at all.


It's not balanced because you've made no mention of nerfing freighters to compensate for the increased difficulty in ganking them. There's no balance there, only increased safety for freighter pilots.

'External forces are preventing you from warping at this time.' Warp scram, bumping same thing, you just don't get the message when your getting bumped.

Are freighters in Low/Nul sec different than the ones in high sec? Is that why you can kill a Bumper in low/Nul but not in High sec? Because the freighters are different? The difficulty in ganking something increases only because the aggression rules of high sec are not being subverted. So in essence it's not making it more difficult it's just making it as difficult as it is supposed to be.

Lol.


Just sayin'.

A Freighter pilot isn't killing a bumper any day of the week in any sec status. Lol. His friend might. But then again... most high sec freighters don't travel with friends. Please keep producing comic gold like this.

According to Concords aggression triggers, Warp scammed would trigger it, bumped does not but has the same effect. Nothing to warp to in your direction of travel means you don't warp regardless of your piloting skills till the direction of travel is corrected.

But you know all this already, it just doesn't support your argument so you dismiss it and keep screaming into the mic.