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Thinking to train for the Phoenix

Author
Tiberius StarGazer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-02-12 04:25:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius StarGazer
Oddly enough after looking at the cruise missile Phoenix I struggle to find much fault with a ship that can throw 6000 DPS + 170km in every direction. You'd be able to hit any other capital ship on field at any time.

Can almost imagine a small group landing off range of another cap fleet while a sub cap fleet pins it down and let's the Phoenix rip em a new one piece by piece. The dreaded ability to Alpha a Phoenix off field is totally negated.

Edit - thinking about it even more, it's the very same tactic I use with Caracals fighting cruisers, someone gets tackle, can't get hit by target, DPS arrives and kites them... Kite dreds anyone?
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
Controlled Chaos
#42 - 2014-02-12 14:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Krystyn
As one of the very few people here who actually has a phoenix and has successfully used it...
You can see I get one of 2 results with it:
Massive alpha damage on a tackled Cap and big damage/final blow:
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=40134
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=42760
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=42761
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=42241
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=42271

Or zero/little damage as it died before my rounds got to the target.
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=42804
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=40889
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=42805
several other kill mails that I did not get on since it died before I even tried to shoot at it becuz Blue Dreads killed it so fast as I was waiting the 15 seconds between shots...

Other notes on the phoenix

Easily the best tank of any of the Dreads. It's not even close and that's using t2 or meta tank its even better with faction/deadspace tank. You are very unlikely to get DD(as that would be a waste of their DD) as you probably wouldn't die even unsieged. Moros and Revs and Nags and probably other carriers are primaired before you unless they want to get the lolz of shooting a phoenix before they all die OR your whole fleet was going to die anyways. However, as everyone else has pointed out tank is virtually meaningless on a Dread. If you get caught by a decent force and bubbled you die end of story. If you have a decent team you wipe them out or catch reps or jump out.

Cap regen isn't important for a phoenix which is why it has crappy regen. One Large T2 Cap booster will get you jump cap level before siege is over. So if you aren't bubbled to hell you will be able to get out, which the Moros and Rev really can't manage to match. Longer fights you don't even need the cap booster(but its hard to know how long a cap fight could last)
Massive alpha, but only on Supers, Caps and structures.
BSes unless they are stationary or webbed to hell and TPed so bad they are lit up like a christmas tree you can't hardly hit them at all. Fast moving Caps will get some damage mitigation from the pathetic explosion velocity of the missiles, but that really doesn't happen a lot(I have seen a nano Hel before)

No range issues with the phoenix. If you can hit at all you are going to hit it for the maximum damage you are able(which may be pathetic or 50k+ volley). Its either hit or miss there isn't anything in between. Citadel torps can got about 60km depending on skills if you are within that range you will do fine. The other Dreads have to change ammo types to change range, but if your cyno pilot isn't an idiot he will drop you close to optimal for the Gun Dreads.
If you have citadel cruiser(for what I don't know) your range is 150km+

In Structure grinding the phoenix can change damage type to match the weakest resist(assuming you brought the right ammo)

Missiles look cooler than the other weapons(big deal I know)

They are the cheapest to use, see the one we killed, it is under 2 bil for a workable setup.
http://ishukone-raata.net/killboard/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=42803
Add a few faction BCSes on there and you can drop the cap rig and bring up the dps a lot and still be cheaper than a Moros

But Bottomline
The Moros and Revs in their optimals easily out DPS the phoenix. Nags can get the same or better range and dps with no wait time. The gun dreads can all adjust their optimals with ammo type changes and can hit BS sized targets relatively well, the phoenix cannot. So the only thing the phoenix is decent at is structure grinding and hitting tackled Caps and Supers

Edit:Training Capital Guns and Gallente BS/Dread skills now
Z'zauoe Euopaeqorua
Doomheim
#43 - 2014-02-13 06:44:02 UTC
Who cares what is the best?

Fly Caldari and have fun.
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