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Enough is Enough: Nerf Minmatar
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Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#521 - 2011-11-24 11:39:46 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Jaxemont wrote:
That's my main annoyance with Minmatar at least. How come only one race gets to be easy to fit, while the others are a nightmare?


Caldari missile boats are not particularly hard to fit. That being said, the Drake requires fitting mods for a ganglink, while the Cane does not.

not hard ... sure...
lets compare cerb vs vaga
cerb with 5 ham+mwd remain 312 cpu 76 pg
vaga with 5 425mm ac+mwd remain 349cpu 225pg
both of them are shield tanking ships and bcu needs more cpu than gyros
so if you want to fit a shield extender cerb needs some pg rigs/modules/implants

yeah totally not hard to fit,the other caldari ships are the same
dumb ignorant matar fanboy



You have never fit a Vaga have you.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#522 - 2011-11-24 11:55:31 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Jaxemont wrote:
That's my main annoyance with Minmatar at least. How come only one race gets to be easy to fit, while the others are a nightmare?


Caldari missile boats are not particularly hard to fit. That being said, the Drake requires fitting mods for a ganglink, while the Cane does not.

not hard ... sure...
lets compare cerb vs vaga
cerb with 5 ham+mwd remain 312 cpu 76 pg
vaga with 5 425mm ac+mwd remain 349cpu 225pg
both of them are shield tanking ships and bcu needs more cpu than gyros
so if you want to fit a shield extender cerb needs some pg rigs/modules/implants

yeah totally not hard to fit,the other caldari ships are the same
dumb ignorant matar fanboy



You have never fit a Vaga have you.


did i say i would fit 425mm ac? or what? I wouldnt use ham on cerb neighter that doesnt mean i cant use them to compare fitting restrictions

i jumped vaga btw and use cyna ,it isnt more costly at all and still better by far
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#523 - 2011-11-24 12:05:35 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:


did i say i would fit 425mm ac? or what? I wouldnt use ham on cerb neighter that doesnt mean i cant use them to compare fitting restrictions

i jumped vaga btw and use cyna ,it isnt more costly at all and still better by far



So you don't know then

You do understand that you fit two TE/s because there isn't enough CPU for Gyros, and you can't T2 fit its tank if you want anything in your slot 6 that isn't a PG implant. Which is why you see them with a LSE II and a Regolith a lot of the time, that pilot either want something useful for that hardwire, or can't be arsed to change clones every time he wants to use the hull.

For this you get less tank than a Cerb and likely less applied DPS, Cynbal is different ball game.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#524 - 2011-11-24 12:12:34 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:


did i say i would fit 425mm ac? or what? I wouldnt use ham on cerb neighter that doesnt mean i cant use them to compare fitting restrictions

i jumped vaga btw and use cyna ,it isnt more costly at all and still better by far



So you don't know then

You do understand that you fit two TE/s because there isn't enough CPU for Gyros, and you can't T2 fit its tank if you want anything in your slot 6 that isn't a PG implant. Which is why you see them with a LSE II and a Regolith a lot of the time, that pilot either want something useful for that hardwire, or can't be arsed to change clones every time he wants to use the hull.

For this you get less tank than a Cerb and likely less applied DPS, Cynbal is different ball game.

so with more cpu to spend on rest of the fit it is harder to fit than the cerb , that is just totally believable
pls show me the fit where vaga runs out of cpu thx
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#525 - 2011-11-24 12:17:26 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Naomi Knight wrote:


did i say i would fit 425mm ac? or what? I wouldnt use ham on cerb neighter that doesnt mean i cant use them to compare fitting restrictions

i jumped vaga btw and use cyna ,it isnt more costly at all and still better by far



So you don't know then

You do understand that you fit two TE/s because there isn't enough CPU for Gyros, and you can't T2 fit its tank if you want anything in your slot 6 that isn't a PG implant. Which is why you see them with a LSE II and a Regolith a lot of the time, that pilot either want something useful for that hardwire, or can't be arsed to change clones every time he wants to use the hull.

For this you get less tank than a Cerb and likely less applied DPS, Cynbal is different ball game.

so with more cpu to spend on rest of the fit it is harder to fit than the cerb , that is just totally believable
pls show me the fit where vaga runs out of cpu thx


Bah you are right, that was a fleet stabber, now that I look.
PAAX
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#526 - 2011-11-26 19:46:07 UTC
BALANCE COMING IN NEXT YEARS EXPANSION PACK ARMAGEDDON


AMARR +1 HOLY HAND GRENADE

GALLENTE +1 HOMING PIDGEON

MINMATAR +1 BANNANA BOMB

CALDARI +1 SHEEP LAUNCHER
PAAX
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#527 - 2011-11-26 19:46:37 UTC
BALANCE COMING IN NEXT YEARS EXPANSION PACK ARMAGEDDON


AMARR +1 HOLY HAND GRENADE

GALLENTE +1 HOMING PIDGEON

MINMATAR +1 BANNANA BOMB

CALDARI +1 SHEEP LAUNCHER
PAAX
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#528 - 2011-11-26 19:47:23 UTC
BALANCE COMING IN NEXT YEARS EXPANSION PACK ARMAGEDDON


AMARR +1 HOLY HAND GRENADE

GALLENTE +1 HOMING PIDGEON

MINMATAR +1 BANNANA BOMB

CALDARI +1 SHEEP LAUNCHER
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
#529 - 2011-11-26 20:04:12 UTC
I think people are in denial because if minmatar get nerfed they don't have anything else trained. Minmatar are the best race byy far. Sub capital their ship is the best ship in every case except ship specific gang compositions. As a bitter vet who can fly all four races I don't really care if they get nerfed, but they are basically all I fly outside of specialty ships. I fly ishtar and lachesis only from gallente because hurricane and vagabond > anything gallente have. My 220 acs can pop most frigates with ease and shoot as far as scorch, with a choice of damage. That rules. I'll fly it until it gets nerfed with pride but it ought to get nerfed. For other examples why fly really outside of an armor ab logi gang? Why fly harbinger > hurricane? Caldari have drake and falcon lol.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#530 - 2011-11-26 20:28:17 UTC
PAAX wrote:
BALANCE COMING IN NEXT YEARS EXPANSION PACK ARMAGEDDON


AMARR +1 HOLY HAND GRENADE

GALLENTE +1 HOMING PIDGEON

MINMATAR +1 BANNANA BOMB

CALDARI +1 SHEEP LAUNCHER


Let the thread die. Moron.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#531 - 2011-11-26 20:30:20 UTC
Asuka Smith wrote:
I think people are in denial because if minmatar get nerfed they don't have anything else trained. Minmatar are the best race byy far.


You are totally right. I have nothing else trained. At all.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#532 - 2011-11-26 22:55:52 UTC
Asuka Smith wrote:
I think people are in denial because if minmatar get nerfed they don't have anything else trained.


This is a bad post.
Goose99
#533 - 2011-11-26 22:58:27 UTC
Once Minmatar got nerfed, you'll actually have to think of what boats with what loadouts to fly under what conditions, as opposed to one race kits all.Lol
indicast
Conquerors Undead Space
#534 - 2011-11-30 09:32:10 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Two thoughts:


  • Lose the ~9% DPS increase that short range ammo got with the projectile buff. The purification of damage type was more then enough.

  • Reduce the tracking enhancer falloff bonus from 30% to 15%.


Discuss.



if they nerf minmatar 80% of the game will unsubscribe lol :P good luck with that
indicast
Conquerors Undead Space
#535 - 2011-11-30 11:43:28 UTC
Kingwood wrote:
- Deimos walks over a Cynabal or Vaga. It's easier getting someone into scram range than to stay out of it.
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#536 - 2011-11-30 12:29:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Minmatar used to be bad, but after many buffs they have a few advantages too many. It's not any particular area, it's all the advantages taken together. It used to be the case that the unique advantages were justified by low dps, but that's no longer the case today.

Addendum:

What I particularly dislike about Autocannons is how easily they shred ships of a size class smaller in falloff. That should be addressed. (the Zealot can do it too at higher ranges, but unlike the Minmatar ships in question actually gets shredded by frigates in return)

One other thing is the utility high slot(s) of Minmatar ships combined with abundant grid and cpu in AC fits. I think a lot more ships should have utility high slots AND enough cpu and grid to fit something in there. Especially now that wormhole space exists where probe launchers are almost a requirement, there are still many ships who can't fit one without undue sacrifices.
Lars Zundi
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#537 - 2011-11-30 14:18:44 UTC
Back when I started playing Mimatar used to be regarded as 'hard mode' eve!
Many of the ships had split weapon systems and needed huge & diverse SP input to fly properly, but were fantastic in the control of a properly skilled and experienced pilot. (Phoon being the prime example) You ****** up your fit or your flying and you generally got ripped apart though.

I feel minmatar has lost their flavour somewhat. Barely keeping out of web range of an angry mega and managing to pop him in a split weapon, low tank matari BS was bloody good fun. The difference is if you got snagged back then you died in a fire. If you get snagged now you can often out shoot, out tank, and if all else fails still outrun any same size hull from other races.

Buffs/nerfs are a revolutionary process ofc, give it another few years and we may well all be complaing how OP Gallente is..
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#538 - 2011-11-30 15:01:17 UTC
heh this thread is like a Japanese cochroach circa 1946.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#539 - 2011-12-01 10:51:42 UTC
Oh just found another matar advantage lower costs of ships
tornado 45m talos 55m yeah balanced....
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#540 - 2011-12-01 11:03:42 UTC
Gallente is always more expensive due to noxium requirements...


Where a Myrm goes for 42(ish) you see Hurricanes around 26 and drakes just under 30......then you get to load Myrm with about 15-20 drones which adds up to another 10-12 mil or so.