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Out of Pod Experience

 
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'In Real LIfe I am KInd. In EVE I am a Psychopath'

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Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#121 - 2014-02-11 03:12:21 UTC
Ever since I started playing this character, I've been eating bananas, climbing trees and flinging poo.

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#122 - 2014-02-11 03:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Are people who are greedy when playing monopoly bad people in real life?


There's the rub, distinguishing between game and real life. Or imagination and real life. Or dream and real life.
It's all real life, you are what you do.
Does anybody seriously think a person can think hateful violent thoughts all day for years and not change their character?
In my experience roleplayers pretty much talk in this stilted, lugubrious sort of style, then under pressure they revert to type.
Pressure test reveals who you are, generous, cowardly, treacherous, indomitable, whatever.
Human nature is like a big beautiful garden with paths winding to and fro.
The horror.





What if Real Life is a game and you are an alien playing on the Earth RP PVP realm as the mythical human race and your real-real life conciousness has been suspended upon login to enable more realistic roleplaying.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2014-02-11 03:17:59 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Are people who are greedy when playing monopoly bad people in real life?


There's the rub, distinguishing between game and real life. Or imagination and real life. Or dream and real life.
It's all real life, you are what you do.
Does anybody seriously think a person can think hateful violent thoughts all day for years and not change their character?
In my experience roleplayers pretty much talk in this stilted, lugubrious sort of style, then under pressure they revert to type.
Pressure test reveals who you are, generous, cowardly, treacherous, indomitable, whatever.
Human nature is like a big beautiful garden with paths winding to and fro.
The horror.





What if Real Life is a game and you are an alien playing on the Earth RP PVP realm as the mythical human race and your real-real life conciousness has been suspended upon login to enable more realistic roleplaying.

Are you even RP'ing at that point? Sounds more like you would be just being yourself in what you didn't know was a simulation.
Lido Seahawk
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2014-02-11 03:18:57 UTC
I thought it was Dungeons and Dragons that made people go off the deep end. Or was it heavy metal? Or Reefer? I can't keep up with all the works of Satan!

I know for sure it isn't rap music. Anyone who listens to that kind of "music" is just born evil! Dang kids these days.....

May I have your stuff?
Aiwha
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#125 - 2014-02-11 03:27:27 UTC
Wait till EU prime time and you'll get laughed at for linking to the daily mail.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Arancar Australis
Dead Sun Rising Enterprises
#126 - 2014-02-11 03:29:05 UTC
Grumpymunky wrote:
Ever since I started playing this character, I've been eating bananas, climbing trees and flinging poo.



Nice to see that by playing this wondrous game, you were able to add "Eating Bananas" to your existing abilities.
Big smile
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#127 - 2014-02-11 03:37:46 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
Of course an EVE persona reflects your real life persona. When there are no consequences, (i.e. in a video game) you will act however you damn well please. If that means treating others like ****, then I would put money on you treating people like **** in real life when it doesn't matter. That's a gross oversimplification to highlight a point, however.
See, this is where you're flat out wrong, by your own explanation.
"When there are no consequences", I can't treat people like four asterixes, because that's a consequence.
So if I treat people IRL like I do ingame, I do them no harm or negative consequence.


I've explained my position as clearly as I can. If you believe you can't treat someone poorly because there are no consequences, you have an interesting world view. If you believe the way you treat someone is a consequence then we can't have any discussion on this matter. Your belief is incorrect. But I did think this was interesting...

Alphea Abbra wrote:
This "you are who you are in the dark", or "when relieved of consequences, you act on your darker desires" is simply fantasy used to demonise others to reinforce your view of your own moral high ground, or soften the blow of a loss. "He cheated, so it's okay" - well yeah, except he did not break any rules, so he didn't cheat.


It's not a simple fantasy. It's reality. I don't use it to demonize others or reinforce any moral high ground. I don't claim any moral high ground against others. You made that claim for me.

You (a general you, not you specifically, since I apparently need to make these things clear for you) treating people like a douche is not a consequence. You not treating people like a douche in RL because of whatever inhibition, but doing so when that inhibition is removed (by being in front of a screen rather than a face) probably reflects an inclination towards treating people like a douche in RL, consciously or subconsciously repressed as those inclinations might be. And it might just be you roleplaying and not indicative of any kind of latent douchyness at all. I can't know because I can't know for certain your intentions. That's why I use word (like in my previous post that you did so well at comprehending) like 'probably' 'inclination' etc. Me judging you as being a douche makes no claim to my morality (or lack thereof.)

It does not follow that me thinking you're a douche means that you're a bad/evil/immoral/whatever person. It simply is what it is. If that bothers you, you need to introspect a bit on why it bothers you.

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Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#128 - 2014-02-11 03:47:34 UTC
Is there any good or evil in a deterministic universe. If the mind is in fact just the brain and the brain exists wholly within the universe then it reacts to information/events that came before just like balls on a pool table, and your choice is in fact just the latest event in a chain of causality. ie. The murderer was always going to be a murderer. In this case making value judgements like good and evil is pointless and silly.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#129 - 2014-02-11 03:47:39 UTC
I guess I'll start here:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Of course, the spanner in any discussion, is what is acting as a "villain" in a setting such as EvE. In a game about spaceship combat, can shooting a spaceship really be considered "evil" play. If you then adjust the centre of what is considered "normal", doesn't that then alter everything in relation? It's not just "lack of repercussion", its a fundamental shift of what is "default behavoir". Are you saying everyone who shoots a ship is a potential murderer? That strikes me as saying everyone who knocks down bowling pins is a budding vandal, or everyone who plays cricket (or baseball for those across the water) is a violent thug who might be about to smash someones head in with a plank of wood.

A bit daft, don't you think?.


You are equating inanimate objects (bowling pins, baseballs, cricket balls) with people, which is pretty classically a demonstration of lack of empathy. As inconvenient as it may be, PEOPLE ARE NOT OBJECTS! mmmkay?

Your argument that because certain behavior is "normal" that it is not also "bad" is essentially the same thing as "I was just following orders.". Just because gassing Jews is normal, that don't make it right. Similarly, blowing up people's spaceships may be "normal", but that doesn't exempt each individual instance of the action from moral and ethical examination. In a warzone killing people is normal, but if you shoot someone wearing the same shirt as you or a baby or a nun, you're still gonna have some 'splainin' to do. In prison, it's normal to put people in cages, but if you put the warden in a cage or you make him strip naked, grab his balls, and cough, you can be sure you will probably be made to do likewise at some point in the near future. And, just the same, blowing up internet spaceships in EVE is a common occurrence, but that doesn't mean you aren't an [expletive deleted] for blowing one up.

Good try, though, Goon.

p.s.

Some questions to think about:

What is the difference between "acting" like a villain and "being" a villain?
Is EVE a game "about spaceship combat"?
When can shooting a spaceship really be considered "play"?
Can there be "default" actions and are we less responsible for the consequences of those versus regular actions?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2014-02-11 03:53:29 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Is there any good or evil in a deterministic universe. If the mind is in fact just the brain and the brain exists wholly within the universe then it reacts to information/events that came before just like balls on a pool table, and your choice is in fact just the latest event in a chain of causality. ie. The murderer was always going to be a murderer. In this case making value judgements like good and evil is pointless and silly.

Regardless, wouldn't that value decision be equally inevitable? Or really, the idea that you actually make a decision would just be a cruel joke, but the ends of that value assignment were equally inevitable so there is no use arguing against it.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#131 - 2014-02-11 04:04:23 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Is there any good or evil in a deterministic universe. If the mind is in fact just the brain and the brain exists wholly within the universe then it reacts to information/events that came before just like balls on a pool table, and your choice is in fact just the latest event in a chain of causality. ie. The murderer was always going to be a murderer. In this case making value judgements like good and evil is pointless and silly.

Regardless, wouldn't that value decision be equally inevitable? Or really, the idea that you actually make a decision would just be a cruel joke, but the ends of that value assignment were equally inevitable so there is no use arguing against it.


Yes. Exactly.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#132 - 2014-02-11 04:12:57 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
I guess I'll start here:
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Of course, the spanner in any discussion, is what is acting as a "villain" in a setting such as EvE. In a game about spaceship combat, can shooting a spaceship really be considered "evil" play. If you then adjust the centre of what is considered "normal", doesn't that then alter everything in relation? It's not just "lack of repercussion", its a fundamental shift of what is "default behavoir". Are you saying everyone who shoots a ship is a potential murderer? That strikes me as saying everyone who knocks down bowling pins is a budding vandal, or everyone who plays cricket (or baseball for those across the water) is a violent thug who might be about to smash someones head in with a plank of wood.

A bit daft, don't you think?.


You are equating inanimate objects (bowling pins, baseballs, cricket balls) with people, which is pretty classically a demonstration of lack of empathy. As inconvenient as it may be, PEOPLE ARE NOT OBJECTS! mmmkay?

Your argument that because certain behavior is "normal" that it is not also "bad" is essentially the same thing as "I was just following orders.". Just because gassing Jews is normal, that don't make it right. Similarly, blowing up people's spaceships may be "normal", but that doesn't exempt each individual instance of the action from moral and ethical examination. In a warzone killing people is normal, but if you shoot someone wearing the same shirt as you or a baby or a nun, you're still gonna have some 'splainin' to do. In prison, it's normal to put people in cages, but if you put the warden in a cage or you make him strip naked, grab his balls, and cough, you can be sure you will probably be made to do likewise at some point in the near future. And, just the same, blowing up internet spaceships in EVE is a common occurrence, but that doesn't mean you aren't an [expletive deleted] for blowing one up.

Good try, though, Goon.

p.s.

Some questions to think about:

What is the difference between "acting" like a villain and "being" a villain?
Is EVE a game "about spaceship combat"?
When can shooting a spaceship really be considered "play"?
Can there be "default" actions and are we less responsible for the consequences of those versus regular actions?


If I took money out of your bank, sure that would be an ******* thing to do. But if you put money into the pot on a poker table and lose if to me, how does that make me as *******? You dealt yourself into the game by undocking.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2014-02-11 04:20:32 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
If I took money out of your bank, sure that would be an ******* thing to do. But if you put money into the pot on a poker table and lose if to me, how does that make me as *******? You dealt yourself into the game by undocking.
There is a pretty big difference between a scenario where taking someones money in a chance based but otherwise fair contest in which that is the only goal and taking someones money because they're there and you can.

Without even making a moral judgement, it's still mechanically worlds apart.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#134 - 2014-02-11 04:34:10 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
If I took money out of your bank, sure that would be an ******* thing to do. But if you put money into the pot on a poker table and lose if to me, how does that make me as *******? You dealt yourself into the game by undocking.
There is a pretty big difference between a scenario where taking someones money in a chance based but otherwise fair contest in which that is the only goal and taking someones money because they're there and you can.

Without even making a moral judgement, it's still mechanically worlds apart.


Welll yea, that's the point.....
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2014-02-11 04:37:28 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
If I took money out of your bank, sure that would be an ******* thing to do. But if you put money into the pot on a poker table and lose if to me, how does that make me as *******? You dealt yourself into the game by undocking.
There is a pretty big difference between a scenario where taking someones money in a chance based but otherwise fair contest in which that is the only goal and taking someones money because they're there and you can.

Without even making a moral judgement, it's still mechanically worlds apart.


Welll yea, that's the point.....

Maybe I misread, it sounded like you were equating undocking with throwing money into a poker pot. I can't say I agree with that.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#136 - 2014-02-11 04:58:48 UTC
So what you're saying is that those who are able to treat the game as a game and laugh at the hilarious mistakes and pratfalls it inevitably generates are well-adjusted people, whereas those who confuse in-game actions towards them with attacks on their person and who respond by abuse and threats of physical violence are… let's just call it “not right in the head”?

Yeah, no surprise there. The only worrying bit is how the latter category so desperately try to paint themselves as normal and the everyone else as psychopaths or “sociopaths” (something that doesn't even exist).
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2014-02-11 05:12:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
So what you're saying is that those who are able to treat the game as a game and laugh at the hilarious mistakes and pratfalls it inevitably generates are well-adjusted people, whereas those who confuse in-game actions towards them with attacks on their person and who respond by abuse and threats of physical violence are… let's just call it “not right in the head”?

Yeah, no surprise there. The only worrying bit is how the latter category so desperately try to paint themselves as normal and the everyone else as psychopaths or “sociopaths” (something that doesn't even exist).

As someone with no knowledge of the related fields I must ask, what do you mean by sociopaths not existing?
Clementina
University of Caille
#138 - 2014-02-11 05:22:26 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Maybe I misread, it sounded like you were equating undocking with throwing money into a poker pot. I can't say I agree with that.

Undocking is quite like throwing money into the pot. I mean your ship, mods, and cargo is worth isk is it not? And you wish to have more isk, kills on the killboard, and honour when you redock then when you left right? But other people also want kills and isk, your isk and your ship on their killboard. So you risk the ship along side others who are risking their ships in the same game, and sometimes you win and other times you don't win.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#139 - 2014-02-11 05:24:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
As someone with no knowledge of the related fields I must ask, what do you mean by sociopaths not existing?

I mean that it's a century-old term that is no longer really considered a valid (or even useful) diagnosis. At best, sociopathy is a nit-picking subcategory of psychopathy and when people talk about “sociopaths”, they generally actually mean people suffering from anti-social personality disorder.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2014-02-11 05:33:37 UTC
High functioning sociopath

FTFY

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.