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How easy can the average miner keep a belt below profitability?

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Flashy 'Red' Bee
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-02-10 21:02:01 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Flashy 'Red' Bee wrote:
Where there's nothing to mine, there are no gankers either.


You keep on thinking that. Im not going to spoil the surprise.
When there are no miners around, there will not be gankers in belts looking for miners to gank. Context is important.
Flashy 'Red' Bee
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-02-10 21:05:14 UTC
I have updated the OP and title, because I realized that my question wasn't pointing at what I actually wanted to know.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#23 - 2014-02-10 21:09:10 UTC
oh so its like the wolf/rabbit/corn population model. You get enough rabbits to eat the corn, then the corn and rabbits will go extinct, followed by the wolves.

I think I see a flaw in your grand design, however.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Flashy 'Red' Bee
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-02-10 21:34:07 UTC
Batelle wrote:
oh so its like the wolf/rabbit/corn population model. You get enough rabbits to eat the corn, then the corn and rabbits will go extinct, followed by the wolves.

I think I see a flaw in your grand design, however.
You see a flaw in your own idea, because you're just jumping to conclusions.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#25 - 2014-02-10 22:19:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiloh Templeton
Most of my toons trained to mine before they moved onto other things, but I still don't understand what you are trying to get at with your question. What do you mean by 'profitable'?

Every belt with an asteroid in it is profitable because there is no cost (other than opportunity) to mine.

A single mining barge would be hard pressed to clear more than 2 belts a day if that's what you mean.

Every cleared asteroid from a belt will be back after down time.


Here is an up to date ore chart with the variants: Cerlestes.de
Flashy 'Red' Bee
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-02-10 22:27:44 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Most of my toons trained to mine before they moved onto other things, but I still don't understand what you are trying to get at with your question. What do you mean by 'profitable'?

Every belt with an asteroid in it is profitable because there is no cost (other than opportunity) to mine.

A single mining barge would be hard pressed to clear more than 2 belts a day if that's what you mean.

Every cleared asteroid from a belt will be back after down time.


Here is an up to date ore chart with the variants: Cerlestes.de

Below profitability. Not worth even touching. Saying that there is no cost, while at the same time mentioning opportunity cost ... well, that makes no sense. Opportunity cost is exactly what keeps people away from the belt, even if they have no clue what opportunity cost actually is.

"2 belts a day" ... How many hours is "a day" here? Or are your numbers really from downtime to downtime?

Every small asteroid will grow in size a bit, but assuming that there are only micro asteroids left in a belt, even after one downtime they'd not be worth mining.

No?


And still nobody has explained me why I need these charts with ORE variants to answer my question. ^^
Elfred Gam'Havoc
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-02-10 22:40:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Elfred Gam'Havoc
Any activity in game that you engage in that allows you to gain isk, modules or material with or without expending ammunition, crystals, etc. is inherently profitable, or at least more profitable that ship spinning.

The question is how to make it more profitable based on the time you put into it, both real time hours and skill training. The ore charts allow you to find which asteroids are worth the most per volume, allowing you to focus on what will make you the most isk for your time. Its not worth cleaning out an entire belt of everything it holds when there's a grav site in system, or the next belt has an abundance of something when all you've got left in your belt is Veldspar...

Honestly I'd love to be able to reallocate my Mining Barge and refining SP into something else... it was a dark time in my exploration of New Eden...
Flashy 'Red' Bee
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-02-10 22:46:23 UTC
Elfred Gam'Havoc wrote:
Any activity in game that you engage in that allows you to gain isk, modules or material with or without expending ammunition, crystals, etc. is inherently profitable, or at least more profitable that ship spinning.
Well, yes.

The same goes for almost empty asteroid belts. Moving to a different belt with bigger roids is more profitable than mining dozens of micro roids who don't even need a full cycle until depletion.

I guess I should add that to the OP.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#29 - 2014-02-10 22:51:52 UTC
Professional miner, well now a ceo and pos monkey, but meh, even i'm not understanding what you are you asking... you can't mine a belt to below profitability, due to the fact that as long as I don't lose a ship anything I mine that day is profit. Because I pay myself to mine it then sell it... so I don't understand what the hades you are asking.

If you mean mine a belt out, then go back to it tomorrow and decide not to mine it... uh no, I will re-mine it out again. Or move on. My corp in the old days mined out several high sec belts, we then went back the next day and mined them again... so I really have zero idea what you mean... maybe try again with an actual question?

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Flashy 'Red' Bee
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-02-10 22:53:38 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Professional miner, well now a ceo and pos monkey, but meh, even i'm not understanding what you are you asking... you can't mine a belt to below profitability, due to the fact that as long as I don't lose a ship anything I mine that day is profit. Because I pay myself to mine it then sell it... so I don't understand what the hades you are asking.

If you mean mine a belt out, then go back to it tomorrow and decide not to mine it... uh no, I will re-mine it out again. Or move on. My corp in the old days mined out several high sec belts, we then went back the next day and mined them again... so I really have zero idea what you mean... maybe try again with an actual question?
Okay.

Okay, maybe the 'profitability' doesn't fit for what I want to know.


Yes, imagine a clean belt. Not even micro asteroids left.


Downtime occurs.



How long would it take the average miner to wipe the belt again? It regained m³ ore during the downtime, but how long does it take to remove that again?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-02-10 22:54:01 UTC
Doesn't mine. Doesn't plan to mine. Wants others to work out calculations for your own enjoyment? Um ok.

And if that is your updated subject and OP meant to be easier to understand I shudder to think of what it was before.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#32 - 2014-02-10 23:02:41 UTC
Flashy 'Red' Bee wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Professional miner, well now a ceo and pos monkey, but meh, even i'm not understanding what you are you asking... you can't mine a belt to below profitability, due to the fact that as long as I don't lose a ship anything I mine that day is profit. Because I pay myself to mine it then sell it... so I don't understand what the hades you are asking.

If you mean mine a belt out, then go back to it tomorrow and decide not to mine it... uh no, I will re-mine it out again. Or move on. My corp in the old days mined out several high sec belts, we then went back the next day and mined them again... so I really have zero idea what you mean... maybe try again with an actual question?
Okay.

Okay, maybe the 'profitability' doesn't fit for what I want to know.


Yes, imagine a clean belt. Not even micro asteroids left.


Downtime occurs.



How long would it take the average miner to wipe the belt again? It regained m³ ore during the downtime, but how long does it take to remove that again?


it dpeneds. on which down time, how many roids, but a solo miner could prolly clear a newly spawned belt in about 2-4 hours

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Flashy 'Red' Bee
Doomheim
#33 - 2014-02-10 23:04:46 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
it dpeneds. on which down time, how many roids, but a solo miner could prolly clear a newly spawned belt in about 2-4 hours
What kind of ship would he use?
What amount of m³ would that be?

This sounds like roids actually regenerate by a lot !


Of course I'm talking about the daily maintenance downtime, which is the downtime when belts get regenerated. ^^
Flashy 'Red' Bee
Doomheim
#34 - 2014-02-10 23:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Flashy 'Red' Bee
... who needs sleep anyway.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#35 - 2014-02-10 23:10:57 UTC
Flashy 'Red' Bee wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
it dpeneds. on which down time, how many roids, but a solo miner could prolly clear a newly spawned belt in about 2-4 hours
What kind of ship would he use?
What amount of m³ would that be?

This sounds like roids actually regenerate by a lot !


Of course I'm talking about the daily maintenance downtime, which is the downtime when belts get regenerated. ^^


a barge, prolly a hulk

no idea, m3 means nothing to me, I mine it till it pops, refine it and sell it, I don't care about m3.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-02-10 23:43:40 UTC
Flashy 'Red' Bee wrote:
Caviar Liberta wrote:
its still accurate, look up a couple of them in game. Dense Veldspar will say it gives +10% more trit then standard Veldspar for example.
Okay, but how does that help me answer my question?


If the average miner can keep the +10/5% ore mined out of a belt then that should answer your question.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-02-10 23:44:43 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Flashy 'Red' Bee wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
it dpeneds. on which down time, how many roids, but a solo miner could prolly clear a newly spawned belt in about 2-4 hours
What kind of ship would he use?
What amount of m³ would that be?

This sounds like roids actually regenerate by a lot !


Of course I'm talking about the daily maintenance downtime, which is the downtime when belts get regenerated. ^^


a barge, prolly a hulk

no idea, m3 means nothing to me, I mine it till it pops, refine it and sell it, I don't care about m3.


The more m3 per cycle you can pull in the less time you have to spend mining.
Ashala Arcsylver
Gypsy Rose Mining
#38 - 2014-02-11 00:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashala Arcsylver
Just thought I would chime in here as well.

Profitability has been covered I think but I think the OP is missing a concept in logic here. The only people who really look at the types of numbers that are being asked for are the ones who are playing spreadsheets online instead of Eve Online.

People seem to be so convinced that mining is a bad thing (tm) and that any time spent mining is bad in general.

Lots of us miners mine because we are looking for a casual play style that we can log in, set up shop and relax while chatting with corp mates or friends in local. We don't mine to pull every last 0.01 isk worth out of a rock and heaven forbid we let the strip miner run for a millisecond longer than absolutely needed to pull that last grain of rock out of the roid.

Not everyone cares about maximizing profitability or efficiency when mining. Some of us believe it or not do it for enjoyment and to gather supplies to build the things we like to build. We don't care so much about how long it takes because quite frankly this is a game and not a second job.

When you start putting in more time and effort into a game than you do your RL job it stops being a game and becomes more work. I personally come here to relax.

https://secure.eveonline.com/RecallProgram/?invc=49d8eb6e-097b-437a-b125-519e25dd9cd3&type=share
Mynutor
Myn Industries
#39 - 2014-02-11 00:23:41 UTC
I think you don't really understand the basics about mining.

Either contact me in game and I can help you out.

OR

read this:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Mining

and this

http://www.isktheguide.com/

and this:

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=The_Complete_Miner%27s_Guide_by_Halada

OR

listen to this:

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/w/images/archive/1/1f/20110619163828%21E-UNI_Mining_101.mp3

and this

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/w/images/e/e0/E-Uni_Mining_102.mp3

Objective sighted. Target locked. Lasers activated. Pew-pew-pew. Die roid..., DIE!

Felicity Love
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-02-11 00:28:33 UTC
Ashala Arcsylver wrote:
Just thought I would chime in here as well.

Profitability has been covered I think but I think the OP is missing a concept in logic here. The only people who really look at the types of numbers that are being asked for as the ones who are playing spreadsheets online instead of Eve Online.



Without "Spreadsheets Online", and the data that feeds them, most large alliances would see their revenue streams rocked to the foundations.

Personally, I get a stiffy just thinking about that particular brand of chaos and the opportunities it would create -- that being the much-loved "Chaos Effect" that only seems to get "lip service" more than anything else.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )