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What's a good ME and PE level to aim for when making Dreads?
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Singulaer
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-02-08 03:33:00 UTC
Hello,

A while ago I bought a set of BPOs for making Revelations. I'm still researching all the BPOs. The Revelation BPO is roughly ½ way there. The other BPOs are at 150 and 200 ME.

I'm going for a 6/1 Revelation BPO, but I'm not sure what to aim for with the other BPOs. What would be considered to be a good ME and PE level?

I'm not really interested in researching the BPOs until the Revelation BPO is done as I have other plans as well - other capital ships!

I'm thinking 250 ME and then purchase more BPOs and start researching them, but this is a VERY unqualified guess.

In other words: Any input would be appreciated :-)

Cheers!

"Do not attempt to live without vanity, since this is impossible, but choose the right audience from which to seek admiration." - Bertrand Russell
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2014-02-08 05:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Typically BPO for dreads and carriers are M.E. 2

For selling copies, higher is better, though it can take a year to get them to perfect.

P.E. research takes longer then M.E., so P.E. 2 is about as high as most seem to bother.

Component BPO are usually M.E. 50, unless selling copies then M.E. 100 or higher isn't uncommon.
Lennvas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-02-08 10:47:13 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Component BPO are usually M.E. 50.


would you regard R.A.M BPOs as components too? I have some in the oven for T2 module production and expect to half the cost for these things, but that doesnt need anything near 50, more like 10.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-02-08 13:49:42 UTC
Tau likely means capital ship component BPOs (given the context), things like Capital Construction Parts
Singulaer
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-02-08 14:11:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Singulaer
Whoa!

This was unexpected. But on the other hand I never did much research on making dreads. I just decided to make the investment. It's a pleasant surprise.

I guess I'm gonna wrap up the component BPOs - making them similar in ME and PE in order to satisfy my vanity-aestetics-OCD-way-of-playing Big smile

Thanks for the insight guys!

Edit: I mean, I'm not gonna make the component BPOs 200/200. I meant like 200/10 for all of them!

"Do not attempt to live without vanity, since this is impossible, but choose the right audience from which to seek admiration." - Bertrand Russell
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-02-08 15:33:05 UTC
200 is serious overkill for the component BPOs. For an example, Capital Construction Parts the waste difference between ME 100 and ME 200 is about 3 000ISK
fabian 2
Boca del Infierno
#7 - 2014-02-08 16:32:56 UTC
Lennvas wrote:
would you regard R.A.M BPOs as components too? I have some in the oven for T2 module production and expect to half the cost for these things, but that doesnt need anything near 50, more like 10.

RAM and RDb blueprints are classified as Tools. The former are all perfect ME at 100, the latter are perfect at 30.

It takes 8.14 days at a POS to get a RAM BPO to ME100. However, waste at lower levels is:
ME14 - 3 Trit, 3 Pye, 1 Mex
ME40 - 1 Trit, 1 Pye
ME80 - 1 Trit

If you intend to produce constantly from your RAM BPOs, don't ignore PE.

Source: http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo
fabian 2
Boca del Infierno
#8 - 2014-02-08 17:01:08 UTC
Singulaer wrote:
I'm going for a 6/1 Revelation BPO, but I'm not sure what to aim for with the other BPOs. What would be considered to be a good ME and PE level?

I'm thinking 250 ME and then purchase more BPOs and start researching them, but this is a VERY unqualified guess.

What do you intend to do with the BPOs once you've researched them?

If you intend to manufacture from them, then research them to sensible levels of ME and PE.

If you intend to sell copies, the market has come to expect silly levels of ME and PE for cap comp BPOs, from 100/50 and up.

A Revelation BPO is perfect at ME6. Personally, I wouldn't take PE any higher than 1 - so I'd suggest your proposed level of 6/1 is fine.

But, as Elena said, researching component BPOs to ME200 is total overkill. Researching them to ME100 is likely to be overkill if you intend to manufacture from them. Time spent researching is time lost manufacturing.

Work out the trade-off with http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo - play around with different ME/PE levels.
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#9 - 2014-02-10 14:42:00 UTC
Dreads have perfect M.E. at 6 and get P.E. 2-4 for good measure.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2014-02-10 19:34:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Tau likely means capital ship component BPOs (given the context), things like Capital Construction Parts

Correct, that was my meaning: capital components. I thought this thread was about building capitals.

R.A.M. don't really cost much. The average is what 80k? Only some fraction of that is typically used per run. You can't save much ISK, so spending much time researching them is pointless.
Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
#11 - 2014-02-10 20:40:11 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Typically BPO for dreads and carriers are M.E. 2

For selling copies, higher is better, though it can take a year to get them to perfect.

P.E. research takes longer then M.E., so P.E. 2 is about as high as most seem to bother.

Component BPO are usually M.E. 50, unless selling copies then M.E. 100 or higher isn't uncommon.


That's just wrong. I know you have generally good reputation, but it's not first time I see you giving out bad advice.

So:

  • Carriers have optimal ME of 2, except Thanatos with ME of 3;
  • Dreads: Moros & Revelation optimal ME is 6, Phoenix & Naglfar optimal ME is 5;
  • Optimal ME for Rorqual is also 6;
  • Generally it's not worth going over PE 1, but if you really have some extra time you can research to PE 2;
  • For components ME/PE 100/20 is optimal both for production and resale factor.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2014-02-10 21:49:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Jack Mayhem wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Typically BPO for dreads and carriers are M.E. 2

For selling copies, higher is better, though it can take a year to get them to perfect.

P.E. research takes longer then M.E., so P.E. 2 is about as high as most seem to bother.

Component BPO are usually M.E. 50, unless selling copies then M.E. 100 or higher isn't uncommon.


That's just wrong. I know you have generally good reputation, but it's not first time I see you giving out bad advice.

So:

  • Carriers have optimal ME of 2, except Thanatos with ME of 3;
  • Dreads: Moros & Revelation optimal ME is 6, Phoenix & Naglfar optimal ME is 5;
  • Optimal ME for Rorqual is also 6;
  • Generally it's not worth going over PE 1, but if you really have some extra time you can research to PE 2;
  • For components ME/PE 100/20 is optimal both for production and resale factor.

You are confusing "perfect", "optimal", and "sufficient".

Don't mess with me on M.E. levels Blink

M.E. 2 is sufficient for manufacturing capitals. You will find the majority of BPO and BPC on contracts are at this level (capital "kits" are usually researched a lot more, and sell for a lot more, which includes a premium for assembling the kit). It takes nearly 2 months to research that much. P.E. takes longer than M.E., roughly a month and a half per level, so you will often find BPO and BPC at P.E. 0, but most people stop at P.E. 2

Perfect (no waste) from Chruker's site as I can't verify in-game at the moment:
* Revelation: M.E. 6
* Phoenix: M.E. 8
* Moros: M.E. 6
* Nagfar: M.E. 8
* Archon: M.E. 8
* Chimera: M.E. 7
* Thanatos: M.E. 11
* Nidhoggur: M.E. 9

Perfect takes roughly a year of research, which is a waste of time and ISK if you intend to manufacture. Save 10 months of research, and start earning ISK on your investment by building with M.E. 2, as you can sell a lot of ships in that time. I'd only research more if you couldn't compete in your market [stop trying to sell in The Forge].
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#13 - 2014-02-10 23:28:37 UTC
Another place to play with the figures:

https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/0/19720/6/5/0/5

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Sister Hyde
Kaleidoscopes for the Blind
#14 - 2014-02-10 23:47:36 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Another place to play with the figures:

https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/0/19720/6/5/0/5


chruker.dk shows the optimal ME for 10 (i believe) produced items, which guides me pretty well.


Your excellent site is already much shinier than the excellent chruker.dk.

I suggest making it even better by implementing a slider where you can set the number of copies you intend to make over the lifetime of the BPO (necessarily inaccurate, but who gives?) and a box that shows the optimal ME for that amount of copies/manufactured units.

Guys like you make this game playable, so thanks for that!
Jack Mayhem
Kaer Industries
#15 - 2014-02-11 08:11:52 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
You are confusing "perfect", "optimal", and "sufficient".

Don't mess with me on M.E. levels Blink

M.E. 2 is sufficient for manufacturing capitals. You will find the majority of BPO and BPC on contracts are at this level (capital "kits" are usually researched a lot more, and sell for a lot more, which includes a premium for assembling the kit). It takes nearly 2 months to research that much. P.E. takes longer than M.E., roughly a month and a half per level, so you will often find BPO and BPC at P.E. 0, but most people stop at P.E. 2

Perfect (no waste) from Chruker's site as I can't verify in-game at the moment:
* Revelation: M.E. 6
* Phoenix: M.E. 8
* Moros: M.E. 6
* Nagfar: M.E. 8
* Archon: M.E. 8
* Chimera: M.E. 7
* Thanatos: M.E. 11
* Nidhoggur: M.E. 9

Perfect takes roughly a year of research, which is a waste of time and ISK if you intend to manufacture. Save 10 months of research, and start earning ISK on your investment by building with M.E. 2, as you can sell a lot of ships in that time. I'd only research more if you couldn't compete in your market [stop trying to sell in The Forge].


Dude, seriously, wake up. ME 2 on dreads is neither optimal, sufficient nor perfect. It's just terrible.

I wrote the optimal ME levels for both production and resale value. Good for you that you are writing encyclopaedia article here about common knowledge, but it's not relevant to this thread.
The BlackPrince
Inner Visions
Diplomatic Incidents.
#16 - 2014-02-12 13:46:54 UTC
Decent guide, decent picture.

http://eve-fail.blogspot.dk/2012/04/building-capital-ships-like-boss-part-2.html

Currently building carriers and rorquals. Contact me for a cheap capital ship.