Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Woah. Hold up here. Im purely trying to avoid arguments and aim for solutions.

I posed the question of why is it ok for someone to go AFK and change the way an entire alliance operates and have that constantly security threat with them not being able to do anything about?

No one has answered this question yet other than "You dont do anything other than worry about it"

I never requested a nerf. Not once. I posed suggestions for solutions to the idea. Do -not- group me with my alliance only because I didnt decide to make a character purely for the need to post on this forum. Unlike other individuals.

I already said as politely as I could that my corpmate was poorly stating the arguement and I stepped in. I'm not taking sides here. He wasn't being fair in the way that he was suggesting things, and on that same note, I stepped in when I saw people focusing more on attacking him as a person rather then coming up with solutions.

I posed the very specific request for a solution to the problem of having AFK cloaks in your system for weeks on end (Which has happened several times)

There is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.

So I posed a two part question. Why is it ok for the game to operate that way? I can understand if someone is actually there and doing something or actively stalking. But other than the fact that it has been around for so long and has become culture to us to do this, Why is it ok?

And the second part of this question is how can we solve this? Again, a solution that is fair and reasonable is what Im requesting. Not just something that is based off of "This is how its always been done".

We are striving for change and improvement in the game for EVERYONE. Having another client logged in purely to have it afk and shut down a lot of possible alliance ops doesnt seem very fair, when that person is likely off playing on their own client having fun and doing whatever it is he or she wishes and not even having to have a second thought about the cloaked person.

If you are effecting others, I feel that you should have something on the line. Something to worry about, something to actively watch and have to handle. Every other aspect of Eve is like this. You cant just drop and forget it. (Unless of course you paid isk for it, and if you forget it, you often lose it)

you realize that currently the null sec is becoming more secure than high sec? you realize that unless there is a big coalition alliances can basically farm a region for years?
You want afk cloack nerfed ok i'm in but lets start removing cynojam and jumpbridge and titan jumpportal, then nerf moonmining and BAN every bot corp renter that is currently farming tonload of isk in drone region.

When at any point in my idea did i say i wanted all cloaking to be nerfed? I specifically said something should be done to end afk cloaking while NOT affecting active cloakers or pvp, one scrub in a recon can keep 20 faction bs's docked? hes afk you can't hurt you you say? then why not answer the question of why every nullsec alliance telling people to not rat with 1 in system is wrong? theres a reason they do that, because the mechanics make it the logical choice.

Removing local may eventually be the answer but right not it would be hugely imbalanced, you couldnt even rat , they jump in system you dont know it warp to sanc cloaked, still dont know it, unlock on top of you and your screwed, sounds more like griefers wanting to nerf pve, which is already in a paltry condition.

"if hes afk he can't hurt you" until he comes back... I already stated even if its 1% chance how it forces the logical choice of staying docked, and obviously most null sec alliances agree since that is policy

Nor am i trying to nerf psychological warfar or income denial, camp a system cloaked if thats what gets you off but i think they should at least have to worry about refilling fuel every 3 hours or whatever it ends up being so they cant just leave they're computer all day

This would end afk cloaking and provide a means to kill botters, would stop the masses being pissed over the few with NOTHING they can do about it and encourage more people to play by giving them more options than station spinning, I think this could be done in a way where the pros heavily outway the cons...of which not many people have given many just ZOMG U WANT TO NERF CLOAKS...which no i dont

what you think im on a personal vendetta to nerf cloaks? lol a message would be fine i just dont see any way to impliment it without it being an oddity, maybe after 2 hours afk you get decloaked with warning messages coming up prior, this still has the downside of macros will be made and botters still can't be killed

I dont want to nerf cloaks, i don't want to nerf pvp, I want something that can be done vs afk cloakers and botters while not effecting much else, with the truesec system in place now you can't just upgrade mulitple systems and afk cloaking has become imbalanced and has no counter

Tippia I get that you are a grief lover but may i ask how local can be removed and still make it even possible to rat? your ratting and out of no where 3 recons uncloak on top of you and ur dead before any1 gets theres....sounds more like your trying to nerf pve than i'm trying to nerf cloaking, and ZOMG having to put 200k isk of isotopes in cargo and only get 4-5 hours of cloak would be TERRIBLE...so terrible we shouldnt give a way to stop afk cloakers or botters i just don't agree...come up with a solution that fixes botters and afk's without nerfing cloaks then im all ears

I do support that 00 carebears should go to high sec minening, or form a fleet and bait the solo cloaked.
Still i also support a timer on cloak modules, can use the same argument , 00 arent safe.
I still Think only recons that Are built to cloak should be able to put it on.
So no more insta warping BEes any more.
And let black ops warp cloaked.

also every1 refering to "00 carebears" are you implying null sec should have no pve? whats the point of holding that space then?

I sort of agree with the cloak fuel idea. I run covert, and rather enjoy it. Now the one drawback is explorers. I have spent weeks roaming solo in a covert ship in hostile space. Sometimes i would need to dock and cloak up for a bit. This is where the issue gets difficult. Also, the issue with cycle timers.

For it to be effective without completely ruining for an entire player group of "legitimate" cloak users, there would need to be 24h of fuel, just to be of example without completely blowing it for others. This could be the cloaking skill relates to fuel usage. Make it a very small/new fuel. If it uses 6 units a minute, -1 per level of cloaking would be a start if the fuel is only 0.05m3 (so at level 1 cloak, 5 units per minute woud me 1 m3 for every 4 minutes, 15 m3 an hour. Just a number out of the arse. I would have one small can or something of backup fuel should I not be paying attention. Cycle times can still be cut off mid. Mining lasers do that already and they are cycle timed.

The unfortunate part is while it then there finally is fuel, at an effective level without nerfing the player base, it really does nothing in the end. Any bot or afk cloaker would then refuel whenever they drop off their loot. And that is where the problem comes in for any cloaking module. It works what is needed for legitimate covert operations on covert ops. Non covert ships, it doesn't do much to help. Any changes that solves the bot cloakup afk for hours on end would only make the legitimate usage impossible. That said, if the fuel times were changed to give non covert ships a bit less time in the cloak, could make a difference.

The original quote to your suggestion was 250k per hour, interesting how you have manipulated those figures.

Also doesnt take into account that it was the small cov ops ship, with the likley multiplier to maintain times for larger cargo bays it would imply a greater consumption and hence isk/hour value else larger ships would be able to cloak for longer as a result.

Also ignores the comment that due to an increase in demand this value would likley increase as a result.

Largely a pointless argument anyhow as the posed "interactive window" solution to fix the afk issue doesnt require the use of fuel, and incurred ISK payment and duration nerf.

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Nor does it completley remove botters as potentially they can simply refuel after a period of 2 hours loitering use anyhow, what have you really attempted to fix? Why does a whole community of cloakers thus have to suffer just so you can get a few minutes respite? I think it highly unlikley anyone will create a bot to seek you out specifically. And if they are doing anything other than "loitering" in a cloaked status then they are not gaining any advantage from doing those botting tasks. As any bots that are ratting for instance can't be cloaked whilst doing this can they?

The argument that a whole area of the game has to be changed to penalise players isn't really a satisfactory solution to any botting issue. Unfortunatley I don't know anything about the technicalities of botting or how prevelant it actually is. But I would say find a technical solution to botting completley, don't cripple cloaking as a result. As what about miners, traders and other potential bots that exist? Are you going to try to find solutions to those issues that hamper normal player use? If so why havent CCP introduced similar debilitating style mechanics already other than the reporting process, as they are obviously already aware of the issue?

Interestingly, I'd like to see any supporting evidence you have to suggest that the loitering cloaking bots actually exist. Why would someone go to all the trouble of creating a loitering bot, when they can simply use the afk method, doesn't make much sense to me?

[joke]Maybe all this over active paranoia might be distorting things a little? Maybe a new occupation could open up in EvE, Pilot Psychiatric Services?[/joke]

The purpose of AFK cloaking is psychological and financial warfare.

The fact of the matter is that it is necessary to justify the use of an entire ship class, the Black Ops. I think that its incredibly backwards that local chat is used as a end all be all of intel. Nuet/red in local, safe up until they go away, could be a hotdrop!

Whats the solution in the current system to this problem that my hunter is always known in the system he/she is hunting in? Well thats a simple answer, make it so that they don't know what time you're on! Ok but they'll know when my hunter logs on. Hmmm.... I got it, never log off, that way they don't know if your really there or not. Ok so my hunters will tie up there characters for weeks to months at a time to wage psychological and financial warfare on an opponent. Seems like a fair trade off IMHO.

Would you still PVE with no local, nothing to tell you that I'm lurking in your sanctum... Waiting to kill you... Local shouldn't be nerfed 100%, no it shouldn't be like WH space. It should update all players in that system when somebody enters, but if you stumble in or log on after that your not updated as to whose in system until a session change has occured on that person. That way the locals know when I come in, but if your intel sucks and nobody tells you I'm there when you come in I get the pleasure of turning you to space dust.

If you want a nerf to cloak, bring on the nerf to local so cloaky gangs can finally operate without weeks of preparation for a few hotdrops. My hunters don't disturb your PVE, unless your dumb enough to be ratting in something that they can kill. This is my sandbox too, don't tell me how to play.