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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

First post First post First post
Author
Dave Stark
#1101 - 2014-02-09 13:57:39 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Didn't work.

might be because you've already posted, usually when it wipes it if you hit back it will go back to the message you were typing, and you can submit it.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#1102 - 2014-02-09 14:18:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Didn't work.

might be because you've already posted, usually when it wipes it if you hit back it will go back to the message you were typing, and you can submit it.
I tend to wait for the little orange Draft Saved box to appear, then click that. I've given up hoping that the web devs have a clue in regards to web tech. This forum has to be one of the worse ones I use and that's saying something.

Look at the post timer for example. Why should it apply to you when you edit a post? I can understand them not wanting spam, but why editing? They simply do not know what they are doing half the time and when they do, they mess it up.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#1103 - 2014-02-09 14:21:26 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Didn't work.

might be because you've already posted, usually when it wipes it if you hit back it will go back to the message you were typing, and you can submit it.
I tend to wait for the little orange Draft Saved box to appear, then click that. I've given up hoping that the web devs have a clue in regards to web tech. This forum has to be one of the worse ones I use and that's saying something.


I always now save to clipboard before posting a long response. Too many times the forum goblind have eaten a good retort

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#1104 - 2014-02-09 14:25:03 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Didn't work.

might be because you've already posted, usually when it wipes it if you hit back it will go back to the message you were typing, and you can submit it.
I tend to wait for the little orange Draft Saved box to appear, then click that. I've given up hoping that the web devs have a clue in regards to web tech. This forum has to be one of the worse ones I use and that's saying something.


I always now save to clipboard before posting a long response. Too many times the forum goblind have eaten a good retort
Oh yea I used to do that, but :EFFORT:

Oh and let's not forget the inanimate smilies. Seems those little buggers are the hardest things ever to get to work, along with sigs.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Dave Stark
#1105 - 2014-02-09 15:01:12 UTC
Mag's wrote:
along with sigs.

wouldn't know, ever since i put a link to "ding dong the witch is dead" when maggie thatcher died, i haven't been allowed a sig.
Dalilus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1106 - 2014-02-09 15:44:56 UTC
I insist, bring back the old Doomsday. Instead of having a bunch of rats being led by a piper or half a piper or several pipers, be done with it. With the number of ships in EVE today some culling is needed, imo. Imagine how bullish the market would react and the free press: Bring the BWAAAmbulance, EVE just got tougher. It might even help with blobs, if all ships are blobbing somewhere the rest of space is available for the fc that thinks outside the box.
Pirate
Needa3
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1107 - 2014-02-09 16:27:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Needa3
[quote=CCP Rise]

Quote:
Thats what CCP does with the Features and Ideas Discussion section. Its not about discussion, its about CCP dropping some assclown change in our lap and going " ok this is it deal with it" no matter what the player base says about the change.

This is also fairly silly. We constantly make adjustments based on public feedback. Some recent examples might include most of the deployables and all of the Sisters of EVE ships.

Still weird your changes often give advantages to one side of Eve only. Once your changes are implemented because of one side of Eve it makes CCP biassed in every way.

Quote:
Sentry drones haven't ever received any mechanical changes in any iteration they've done, the only thing thats changed is the Domi and the Ishtar, and yet suddenly they act like something changed in Sentry Drone mechanics to create some kind of imbalance thats being abused, which needs a change to drones, and not the catalyst that actually caused the rampant use: the Domi and Ishtar.

We aren't acting at all like something changed in Sentry mechanics. We also aren't talking about imbalance at all here. We are talking about how, partly because of changes to Domi and Ishtar, Sentries have become popular, and as a result assist has become popular. We think entire fleets of assisted drones is not good gameplay and so we are making a change to address that. I've already said multiple times that the actual power of sentries or of ships that tend to use them is separate and will be addressed, if needed, in a different way (and already has been somewhat by lowering the Dominix tracking/optimal bonus and by adding scripts to omnis).

You are still not providing a solution as it will still allow for a massive blob of drones, only now we will have more people controlling them. Again, proof of CCp's favoritism of one particular side.

Quote:
CCP made changes, and when I say that I mean Kil2 and Fozzie made changes that they KNEW would break the game when they buffed the Domi and Damps as hard as they did. I've even been told that when warned about it all they did was smile, and now instead of owning their own retardation they're just brushing it all aside and moving on like they're not at all responsible, while at the same time completely destroying player made systems that have been around forever to cover their own ineptitude at balancing things.

The public feedback that you claim was so obviously telling us something we already knew - that the Dominix would 'break the game' - was actually mostly complaining the Dominix would be useless compared to the Armageddon. We knew the tracking/optimal bonus would be powerful but we also liked the idea of giving Gallente a fleet capable ship that used drones. We did not anticipate the server load issues but even if we had I doubt we would have scrapped the idea of letting drone users have a fleet ship.

So, you messed up on your "balancing" and now you are going to favor the blobbing side? Or as you say, you are nerfing the counter to the blob. Would you care to explain your interest in a certain faction of EVE? Your action still favor the numbers game only.

Quote:

And instead of opening a dialouge with the players about it they ask the "CSM" which is made up largely of people fighting a group that uses sentry drones. I'm sure the feed back given was totally accurate and non biased and I'm sure that progod was very articulate in his ramblings.

We always open dialogue with players following CSM discussion which follows internal discussion. If you don't feel the CSM is valuable because of their affiliations or personal preferences then I'm sorry, but we will continue to use them as a resource. They are productive, articulate, calm, and they know a lot about EVE Online.


CSM was crap from the moment it was introduced, it is in no way balanced or good for the game. Clearly Mittens is the proof of that. I think a lot of players know a lot of Eve Online, some are more productive or whatever. of course CSm is calm, you are basically giving them (the biggest blob) what they want. kinda obvious you will not hear their spokesmen in the CSM.

Again CCP, poor communication, random changes that break the game, an unwillingness to roll bad changes back and utterly clear favoritsim of one side in EVE.

Yet again you are pulling the card of: "bring the biggest number and you win". Patch after patch you have been reducing weapons and tactics that can counter the blob. So again, what are your "personal" interest in favoring one side?
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1108 - 2014-02-09 16:38:48 UTC
Needa3 wrote:
So, you messed up on your "balancing" and now you are going to favor the blobbing side? Or as you say, you are nerfing the counter to the blob. Would you care to explain your interest in a certain faction of EVE? Your action still favor the numbers game only.

Carriers aren't a "counter to the blob", they just necessitate a movement of the blob from subcaps to caps and up. It's still a numbers game, it's just more expensive (and thus ~more elite~).
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#1109 - 2014-02-09 17:12:18 UTC
time for some realtalk here

what a lot of the whining and the fair and balanced GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORTS [MY 5S] counterpoints are debating is yet another blow against capital ship hegemony

people that are not us (read: the wrong people) wish for their latest version of capital ship force multiplying to have unrestricted ability to murder people in subcaps because they take more SP or something

however, attempting to prop up this behavior is like trying to swim upstream -- it is ignoring years of game balance changes to the contrary

after ccp has nerfed remote AOE doomsdays, AOE doomsdays, targeted subcap doomsdays, lowered supercapital EHP, kneecapped supercarrier drone bays, kneecapped titan tracking by adding hard damage reduction against smaller signature resolution in a way that completely ignores tracking, removed the ability for supercapitals to catch remote tracking links and remote sensor boosters, reduced archon/chimera/wyvern/aeon resistance hull bonuses, and now nerfing drone assist in a way that disproportionately affects capitals

a pattern emerges -- it's almost like CCP is trying to make it more difficult for capitals to be used as a force multiplier

it's not so much that we are influencing these decisions somehow by the dint of our existence or some sort of weird corporate back-channel, it's that we are able to take the long view on eve and, quelle surprise, we keep on being right
Phox Jorkarzul
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
#1110 - 2014-02-09 17:13:27 UTC

It would seem that outside that, this thread has turned into three things. 1st) an outlet for Goons to release smug. 2nd) an outlet for incursion runners to release butt hurt. 3rd) and outlet for blaming CCP to causing the problem to begin with.

I'm asking the ISD to close this thread as since page 35 it was no longer serving its role.

Blasters for life

https://neverpheedthetroll.blogspot.com

Dave Stark
#1111 - 2014-02-09 17:38:40 UTC
incursion runners weren't butthurt. they were confused by the contradiction in the first post that has since been cleared up.
Mario Putzo
#1112 - 2014-02-09 17:43:53 UTC
CCP Rise when are you going to announce a real solution to the server load caused by drones use?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1113 - 2014-02-09 18:27:48 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
CCP Rise when are you going to announce a real solution to the server load caused by drones use?


what like removing carrier dronebay, and having abandoned drones explode very quickly in lag battles?
Aatrek's School Bus
#1114 - 2014-02-09 18:53:40 UTC
thumbs up I agree with drone assist nerf
Dave Stark
#1115 - 2014-02-09 18:57:47 UTC
Aatrek's School Bus wrote:
thumbs up I agree with drone assist nerf

after taking a look at your character portrait, i have decided that i can't take you seriously.
Layla Firoue
Doomheim
#1116 - 2014-02-09 20:11:07 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Aatrek's School Bus wrote:
thumbs up I agree with drone assist nerf

after taking a look at your character portrait, i have decided that i can't take you seriously.


In terms of character portrait awesomeness he beats you by a mile and a half, just saying.
ISD Flidais Asagiri
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#1117 - 2014-02-09 20:39:43 UTC
Greetings

After nearly 1120 Posts it is amazing the topic is still going on. I just ask everyone to continue the excellent effort to stay on topic and keep the personal attacks and rhetoric to zero. Keep the ideas and discourse flowing.

On On

ISD Flidais Asagiri Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#1118 - 2014-02-09 20:40:26 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Would it be too much to ask to keep the political meta posturing out of the thread, and concentrate on mechanics and solutions? Debating whether there is actually a problem, or what we're trying to fix, I understand, but my personal threshold broke when someone sniped p50. There's even a thread on K.com for that kind of stuff.


I doubt it. Mr. Martini encouraged all his plebs to come to this exact thread and troll it into the ground. Which is rather pathetic if you ask me.

Personally I think CCP has to go all in on this drone thing. Or make no changes at all. This halfway thing that Rise has posted on page one doesn't fix any of the problems. You turn 1 assist into 5 assists. So 5 people play out of 250 instead of just 1. You also don't get rid of the excess objects loading the server.

Halfass measures never solve anything. Go for broke. Or GTFO.

If you get rid of all drone assist, then you have to also remove the ability to kill dones with smart bombs or bombs, because you cannot kill guns with bombs. Everyhting has to be fair, right?

As regards the political meta thing, this is very much a political meta thing. Devs in your pocket.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1119 - 2014-02-09 20:47:29 UTC
ISD Flidais Asagiri wrote:
Greetings

After nearly 1120 Posts it is amazing the topic is still going on. I just ask everyone to continue the excellent effort to stay on topic and keep the personal attacks and rhetoric to zero. Keep the ideas and discourse flowing.

On On


there are hundreds of nullblobbers you need to ban
Mario Putzo
#1120 - 2014-02-09 20:54:04 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Would it be too much to ask to keep the political meta posturing out of the thread, and concentrate on mechanics and solutions? Debating whether there is actually a problem, or what we're trying to fix, I understand, but my personal threshold broke when someone sniped p50. There's even a thread on K.com for that kind of stuff.


I doubt it. Mr. Martini encouraged all his plebs to come to this exact thread and troll it into the ground. Which is rather pathetic if you ask me.

Personally I think CCP has to go all in on this drone thing. Or make no changes at all. This halfway thing that Rise has posted on page one doesn't fix any of the problems. You turn 1 assist into 5 assists. So 5 people play out of 250 instead of just 1. You also don't get rid of the excess objects loading the server.

Halfass measures never solve anything. Go for broke. Or GTFO.

If you get rid of all drone assist, then you have to also remove the ability to kill dones with smart bombs or bombs, because you cannot kill guns with bombs. Everyhting has to be fair, right?

As regards the political meta thing, this is very much a political meta thing. Devs in your pocket.


Why do you need to remove the ability to kill drones if you remove drone assist? The reason for drones being "killable" is because of how they compare to other weapon systems like Projectiles/Hybrids/Lasers/Missiles. No Charge Cost, No Cap Cost, Range Limits. Thats why they can be killed not because they can assist/guard something.

But I don't think drone assist is even an issue it shouldn't even be in a discussion until the real issue is fixed.

What do we do about the 5+ Drones everyone can bring with them to a fight, and how do we address load caused by drones. You can change dorne assist a thousand times and still not fix the actual issue.

Drone assist doesn't cause lag. Drones cause lag. GoonPlatoon however seems content shitting up the thread based on Mr. Martini's CTA, instead of actually having real discussion. Case in point CSM Mynna being completely obtuse to the actual issues with drones, because of the Little Bee patch on his arm.