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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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Mario Putzo
#961 - 2014-02-09 03:44:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
What is the issue anyway? I fail to see why you would even feel it is a needed change. What is stopping everyone from putting drones on focus fire and then pressing F1 all at once.

It can't be the Alpha that is the issue because well every weapon system can Alpha.
It can't be the number of drones on field that is the issue because well this doesn't actually do anything about that.

I mean I get that weapon systems get nerfed in some cyclical order. Drones got nerfed back in what 07, then Hybrids got nerfed, then it was Laser weapons turn, then it was Projectiles, then it was Missiles, Back to droens so soon?


How about instead of focusing on the symptoms of the problem you focus on the actual problems.

1) Sov mechanics suck and encourage everyone to dogpile a timer leading to excessive additional object tracking.
2) Standing lists need to become cost associated. 65K people being Blue is bad for the game, we all know it, we all see it. Make it cost moolah to have that kind of list, doing so reduces excessive object tracking.
3) Space is to small. Extend the distances to prevent Blobbing and you reduce excessive object tracking.

We all know the HED-GP would have been a nice fight if there wasn't 3500 people in the same system with 5+ Drones a pop. We saw that a week later massive fights like that can run smooth when the object tracking is minimalized.

Why continually nerf weapons platforms and ship types because Nullsec is based upon who can get on scene first and load up the grid with the most **** first.

Stop fixing symptoms, and fix the real problem, because once again us small folks in Highsec and Lowsec get shat on because 80K dudes in nullsec want to play in .01% real time.

Getting sick of my income streams, my fleet types, and ships I personally enjoy flying getting the shaft because the Blue Donut bitches the loudest.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#962 - 2014-02-09 03:49:31 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Words


TLDR: Drone Assist, Server Load, 10% TiDi, and Node Crashes are all symptoms of the problem: Bad Sovereignty Mechanics and the Blob.

Fix Sov, Nerf the Blob.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#963 - 2014-02-09 03:51:29 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:


I don't see having to assign more drone triggers in large fleet fights actually improving the play experience for the average player..


It wont, i has literally nothing to do with improving our game play experience because if it did they'd be looking at the over all fleet fight experience.

This is just plain biased

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Ragnen Delent
13.
#964 - 2014-02-09 04:09:35 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

Again, your ignoring the biased being shown to the ninny side thats been crying the entire war does not make it not a thing, it just means that you're incapable of neutral thought.


Again, you have failed to bring forth an argument for keeping it. Why should drones have the unique ability to apply perfect alpha to targets? Why should a game ever encourage players to not play it through mechanics that take away any effort they need to apply once in a fight? These are incredibly undesirable mechanics for any game. An excellent analogy of the drone assist mechanic would be a mechanic in an RTS that allowed automated micromanagement of individual units. Would it make playing the game easier? Yes. Would it take away an element of skill from the game? Also yes.
Mario Putzo
#965 - 2014-02-09 04:14:09 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Words


TLDR: Drone Assist, Server Load, 10% TiDi, and Node Crashes are all symptoms of the problem: Bad Sovereignty Mechanics and the Blob.

Fix Sov, Nerf the Blob.


Eh sorta. Drone assist isn't really a symptom of anything. Saying drone assist is an issue is like saying passive POS or PI income is an issue. Maybe we should just get rid of anything that would allow a player to accomplish something without actually playing the game.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#966 - 2014-02-09 04:19:01 UTC
Ragnen Delent wrote:


Again, you have failed to bring forth an argument for keeping it. Why should drones have the unique ability to apply perfect alpha to targets?


This isn't a thing, when you start your post with a lie that means you either don't know what you're arguing about or that you're lying in an attempt to mislead people.

Drones do not fire in prefect synch when assigned, this is a lie, its been a lie, and nothing you can do can make it not a lie.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#967 - 2014-02-09 04:20:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Mario Putzo wrote:
What is the issue anyway? I fail to see why you would even feel it is a needed change. What is stopping everyone from putting drones on focus fire and then pressing F1 all at once.


Let 'em. 200 people having to do a thing in concert has actual room for error, and reintroduces little niggling things like lock times for carriers. If it keeps happening, then it's on CCP to either decide it's part of the game so vOv or make another change.

Also if it keeps happening it means drone assist isn't even a problem so why the hell should anyone not running incursions care about drone assist being capped?

Grath Telkin wrote:
Because changing something being used in a fight after one of the two sides cried for months to get it changed cant be seen as anything but preferential bias.


So would CCP thinking drone assist fleets are a-ok and in no need of change be preferential bias to your side? Because I mean that'd be pretty ******* stupid.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#968 - 2014-02-09 04:32:15 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
[quote=Ragnen Delent]
Because changing something being used in a fight after one of the two sides cried for months to get it changed cant be seen as anything but preferential bias, and if the balance team can't see that as something the player base will take it as then perhaps they shouldn't be on the balance team. Considering EVE's history of preferential treatment this particular change seems poorly timed, and didn't at all involve the player base, and did involve a CSM that is particularly biased towards one side of that fight.


so lemme get this straight

if a balance change is preferential to one side in a conflict, it is automatically invalid and should not be done?????

it isn't because, y'know

it was broken

just saiyan

also pgl is on the csm and has publicly spoken in favor of the change, perhaps the problem is in your own ranks :3
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#969 - 2014-02-09 04:33:02 UTC
also the balance change was done after we won the war

so this nonsense about preferential treatment isn't even really worth the disk space it's printed on
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#970 - 2014-02-09 04:34:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
Snow Axe wrote:


So would CCP thinking drone assist fleets are a-ok and in no need of change be preferential bias to your side? Because I mean that'd be pretty ******* stupid.


Exactly, so you announce the change, but slate it for the spring release so theres TONS of time for feedback and adjustment and time for the people on both sides of the war to adjust so that there can't be any possible claim of biased.

Not this 'oh hey, i know you're in a war and all but fyi we're going to do what this side wants, and its comming in the next point release"

Promiscuous Female wrote:
also the balance change was done after we won the war



Really because your own leader pinged today that the war isn't over yet, I'll let him know that you know more than he does about whats going on.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Mario Putzo
#971 - 2014-02-09 04:38:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Snow Axe wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
What is the issue anyway? I fail to see why you would even feel it is a needed change. What is stopping everyone from putting drones on focus fire and then pressing F1 all at once.


Let 'em. 200 people having to do a thing in concert has actual room for error, and reintroduces little niggling things like lock times for carriers. If it keeps happening, then it's on CCP to either decide it's part of the game so vOv or make another change.

Also if it keeps happening it means drone assist isn't even a problem so why the hell should anyone not running incursions care about drone assist being capped?


If what keeps happening? What is the actual issue with the assist mechanic?

CCP wrote:
As most of you surely know by now, drone assist has been a very hot topic over the last 6 or so months. Archons began showing the power of sentry doctrines before that, and the addition of tracking and optimal bonuses for drones on the Ishtar and Dominix catapulted this philosophy into the forefront of fleet warfare. The resulting meta is causing two major problems that we hope to address through this change.

We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy. Assist places too much control in the hands of a single person and leaves the majority of the fleet with little to do. note: we spent a lot of time considering the value in delegation of ship systems and navigation overall.

Drones, for the time being, are the most taxing weapon system for our hardware, which means overall play experience has suffered some because of the popularity of sentry doctrines.


~ why not remove all passive control systems from fleet then. Why not remove all passive systems in the game if the desire is to have people actually pushing buttons.

~ I still have 5+ Drones, so does everyone else. I will still bring drones, ECM or Damage. I will still launch drones. Everyone else in the game will do this. Everyone in a 4K nullbrawl will do this. You still have 15000+ Additional Objects.

The fix solves nothing because the only ACTUAL issue remaining is passive playing, and "fun" 100% relative. I might actually have more fun not controlling drones. Now CCP has decided to make my game less fun by forcing me to control drones. Thanks for killing my fun in EVE. I hated being responsible for drones. (And you didn't even solve this issue because I can still assign to someone else anyway. So what the hell is the point.)
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#972 - 2014-02-09 04:40:19 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

Promiscuous Female wrote:
also the balance change was done after we won the war



Really because your own leader pinged today that the war isn't over yet, I'll let him know that you know more than he does about whats going on.

i too take all broadcasts at face value
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#973 - 2014-02-09 04:41:44 UTC
I mean I'd take more stock in it if literally everyone not allied with us wasn't running so fast from the theatre that they do things like shamefully negotiate for line members to get their assets from a conquered station or fail to check their new staging system for cynojammers but the proof is in the poop pudding I guess
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#974 - 2014-02-09 04:48:42 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
If what keeps happening? What is the actual issue with the assist mechanic?


CCP is betting that the assist mechanic is the driving reason behind drones-first based fleets. This is their attempt to rectify this. You may or may not agree with the assumption that assist is the driving reason behind said fleets, and that's fine. Feel free to articulate reasons why you don't, but do everyone a favour and drop the intentionally obtuse "BUT WHAT DOES THIS ~MEAN~" bit.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Mario Putzo
#975 - 2014-02-09 04:49:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Promiscuous Female wrote:
I mean I'd take more stock in it if literally everyone not allied with us wasn't running so fast from the theatre that they do things like shamefully negotiate for line members to get their assets from a conquered station or fail to check their new staging system for cynojammers but the proof is in the poop pudding I guess



No one cares about your NullBrawl. Go make a whine thread on Kugu, TMC, or EN24 about whose balls are blue and whose dunking whom. There are dozens of real issues in this game and CCP Rise has opted to spend time working on a "fix" for a problem that doesn't even exist.

> What ever happened to finishing Dominion Sov?
> What ever happened to expanding Lowsec Beyond Faction War
> What ever happened to providing conflict drivers in Highsec.
> Why is the WarDec System STILL absolute ****?
> Why is manufacturing such a ******* chore?
> Why can I unanchor pos modules without confirmations? (losing Titan Baki!)

Yet we have effort put into a "fix" That doesn't even fix the issues CCP and CSM decreed to be important enough to "fix".

Either get rid of Drone Assist entirely or don't change it because the "fix" doesn't actually change a damn thing in fleet fights, or server stability.

Stop wasting man hours on **** that is a non-issue and make the actually terribly unenjoyable parts of this game enjoyable. Or hell figure out how to make the train wreck DUST actually part of New Eden.


Snow Axe wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
If what keeps happening? What is the actual issue with the assist mechanic?


CCP is betting that the assist mechanic is the driving reason behind drones-first based fleets. This is their attempt to rectify this.


So you are just going to go to war without any drones in your bay at all, because you can't assign them? You aren't going to use drones ever again, not even once, if you are in a nonbonused ship? You won't pack any drones in an Arty Fleet, or a Blaster Fleet, or a Missile Fleet?

It doesn't change a god damn thing.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#976 - 2014-02-09 04:50:49 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Exactly, so you announce the change, but slate it for the spring release so theres TONS of time for feedback and adjustment and time for the people on both sides of the war to adjust so that there can't be any possible claim of biased..


So what if the war goes on 3 months? 6 months? How long does CCP have to wait to make a change they feel will improve the game (right or wrong as they may be)? Is the answer to this question "long enough for my side to max out what we can do with this"?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#977 - 2014-02-09 04:51:05 UTC
oh if you need more examples about how THE WAR TOTALLY ISN'T OVER YET GUYS SERIOUSLY I can provide them but it would be gauche of me to publicly air every bit of embarrassing anecdotal evidence

back on topic

drone assist nerf good

fire bad
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#978 - 2014-02-09 04:51:57 UTC
hopefully on page 50 we won't have to complain about how more than 50 drones SNIPED a mans
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#979 - 2014-02-09 04:54:47 UTC
:masterstroke:

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#980 - 2014-02-09 04:56:09 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

Really because your own leader pinged today that the war isn't over yet, I'll let him know that you know more than he does about whats going on.


Did I miss the patch? Is this particular change actually already in the game?

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal