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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

First post First post
Author
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2921 - 2014-02-09 01:46:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Pinky Hops wrote:

I assume you are a renter. Where's your other income? Or is shooting rats the only thing you can figure out how to make money in your system?

In which case, how can you afford to rent?


I'm on record numerous times in this thread already explaining the way nullsec works, but here goes again...

There is a finite amount of sugar in each nullsec system (ded complexes). Those are my profit, and the point of living here. I get sufficient isk from that to pay the rent and be happy. This arrangement works for a character fill of 1 per system. I use (or abuse) the rent system to make sure I get them to myself, and I contest, drop insured ships ontop of and generally harass non blues trying to gypsy my system (blues mostly respect the rules).

I have a goo tower. The goo tower pays ~13m a day.
I have a PI arrangement. The PI arrangement pays ~13m a day from a single character. For various logistics reasons I could make a lot more from PI, but I would then create logistics that would bring it down to ratting hourly rates.

Gun-probing the anomolies for data (weeesearch is after all what I do) is what I do in my spare time, but I am not a linemember, I have no constraints on being deployed or ready to deploy, and I can wait out long swings in random number generators like absolutely no sigs spawning up in my system since Friday, that may go on for a week.

As I said before, If I had 10 people living in my system, I'd have done the maze 0.5 times (as an expectation), not the 5 times I've actually done it, and I would have done 4.4 plexes (expectation), instead of the 44 I've actually done.

I do however -care- about the anomaly income, because I would like to hire on people to develop a more PVP oriented corp, but its pretty plain that concentrating a lot of people into null (what is required for military strength) completely runs opposite to what makes money in null, so I'd basically have to sacrifice my income, I wouldn't be able to set the tax particularly high, and then yes I would in fact have to rat like a poor to pay rent.

It was not entirely unexpected, but a disappointment nonetheless that a nullsec system isn't actually that good a base for making a nullsec corp.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2922 - 2014-02-09 02:06:51 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I agree there should be some sort of determent for having 85% of null blue. Either isk or stat or something reasonable.


That's the real troll in the room.

The blue nullsec.

Bluesec, we should really call it.


LMAO I think you have just created a new Eve word...... Its funny, catchy, and descriptive. All in one.


BLUESEC..... yea thats the ticket.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2923 - 2014-02-09 02:09:45 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
GetSirrus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

The latest nerf was to try and get us to use the ESS. Its failed and made a bad situation even worse.

The fact that high sec is more rewarding that the likes of null is very bad for this game. So again, where is the logic in having the best isk/hr pve in the safest area of space?


not what the nerf was about

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4113876#post4113876


CCP SoniClover wrote:
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.


You measure of isk per hour does not seem to be shared by CCP.


They backpedalled from that so fast it was funny, so you might want to check that again.

LAMO even when its in black and white text they still cant or wont accept it.
Aeligos
A.'.A.'.
#2924 - 2014-02-09 02:14:32 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:


what would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?



Bring it!

libera te tvtemet ex inferis

A.'.A.'.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2925 - 2014-02-09 02:17:56 UTC
Not surprising they can't read their own links.

CCP SoniClover wrote:
Edit: Based on frequent misinterpretations, I want to clarify the statement regarding the amount of ISK entering the game through NPC bounties a bit. This is NOT saying that the amount of ISK is too much and we're using the ESS as a weird nerfing tool of some sort.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2926 - 2014-02-09 02:18:05 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:

I assume you are a renter. Where's your other income? Or is shooting rats the only thing you can figure out how to make money in your system?

In which case, how can you afford to rent?


I'm on record numerous times in this thread already explaining the way nullsec works, but here goes again...

There is a finite amount of sugar in each nullsec system (ded complexes). Those are my profit, and the point of living here. I get sufficient isk from that to pay the rent and be happy. This arrangement works for a character fill of 1 per system. I use (or abuse) the rent system to make sure I get them to myself, and I contest, drop insured ships ontop of and generally harass non blues trying to gypsy my system (blues mostly respect the rules).

I have a goo tower. The goo tower pays ~13m a day.
I have a PI arrangement. The PI arrangement pays ~13m a day from a single character. For various logistics reasons I could make a lot more from PI, but I would then create logistics that would bring it down to ratting hourly rates.

Gun-probing the anomolies for data (weeesearch is after all what I do) is what I do in my spare time, but I am not a linemember, I have no constraints on being deployed or ready to deploy, and I can wait out long swings in random number generators like absolutely no sigs spawning up in my system since Friday, that may go on for a week.

As I said before, If I had 10 people living in my system, I'd have done the maze 0.5 times (as an expectation), not the 5 times I've actually done it, and I would have done 4.4 plexes (expectation), instead of the 44 I've actually done.

I do however -care- about the anomaly income, because I would like to hire on people to develop a more PVP oriented corp, but its pretty plain that concentrating a lot of people into null (what is required for military strength) completely runs opposite to what makes money in null, so I'd basically have to sacrifice my income, I wouldn't be able to set the tax particularly high, and then yes I would in fact have to rat like a poor to pay rent.

It was not entirely unexpected, but a disappointment nonetheless that a nullsec system isn't actually that good a base for making a nullsec corp.

Tauranon I understand your frustration, however; just because you have not solved the bluesec puzzle doesnt mean others have not. When they collect the data they dont just look at what one person is doing they look at it as a whole.

They determined it was not where it needed to be. Not trying to troll or belittle you just saying you need to look at the whole of Eve not as you see if from your Pod alone.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2927 - 2014-02-09 02:22:46 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Until you realize that the comparison doesn't even make sense, because nullsec provides tons of goods that can't otherwise even be obtained.
How does it not make sense to compare one category of income streams with the same category of income streams?

Quote:
So you're admitting that you don't participate in the sandbox?
…which, of course, he didn't say in any way. Why do you keep inventing this nonsensical strawmen every time you lose?

Quote:
You would just claim it's fake. Pointless
No, it's not pointless to provide evidence to support your claims. So far, you haven't been able to. You just keep twisting peoples words and injecting irrelevant tangents when pressed to prove that you have any clue what you're talking about.

Show us the data.


Oh, and could you answer a very simple question, by the way: what does sov null have in place of highsec L4 missions?

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
This would be another example...Do your own work
Yes, that's a good example of trying to shift the burden of proof.
You made the claim; you do the work. By refusing to do so, you only prove that your initial claim was baseless trolling.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2928 - 2014-02-09 02:24:25 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Not surprising they can't read their own links.

CCP SoniClover wrote:
Edit: Based on frequent misinterpretations, I want to clarify the statement regarding the amount of ISK entering the game through NPC bounties a bit. This is NOT saying that the amount of ISK is too much and we're using the ESS as a weird nerfing tool of some sort.

Not surprising as always you only read what you want out of whats said. Its not the Bible you cant just quote one line of scripture.

Edit: Based on frequent misinterpretations, I want to clarify the statement regarding the amount of ISK entering the game through NPC bounties a bit. This is NOT saying that the amount of ISK is too much and we're using the ESS as a weird nerfing tool of some sort. What is being said is that because the amount of ISK is so high, slight changes up or down makes a huge difference - there are many activities in EVE where the income could be affected by dozens of % and it would just be a blip in the ocean for the economy as a whole, but NPC bounties are not one of them - even a few % points up or down will have ripple effect everywhere in the game. So the point being made is that we have to be careful about altering these amounts.

Look t the part underlined and bold that you just seemed to leave out, also read what is said as a whole.

And you call me a liar?...can you say hypocrite?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2929 - 2014-02-09 02:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Not surprising as always you only read what you want out of whats said. Its not the Bible you cant just quote one line of scripture.
…and yet, that is exactly what you were doing.

The fact remains: the bounty reduction was not there to minimise inflation. They completely retracted that early statement. It was very blatantly there to incentivise the use of ESS, as the discussion in the feedback threads clearly show.

Quote:
And you call me a liar?
Considering how often you lie, it's a pretty good thing to call you.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2930 - 2014-02-09 02:31:37 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

Tauranon I understand your frustration, however; just because you have not solved the bluesec puzzle doesnt mean others have not. When they collect the data they dont just look at what one person is doing they look at it as a whole.

They determined it was not where it needed to be. Not trying to troll or belittle you just saying you need to look at the whole of Eve not as you see if from your Pod alone.


Even ISD recognize the lack of signal in your noise.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2931 - 2014-02-09 02:38:58 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Until you realize that the comparison doesn't even make sense, because nullsec provides tons of goods that can't otherwise even be obtained.


E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
This would be another example...Do your own work
Yes, that's a good example of trying to shift the burden of proof.
You made the claim; you do the work. By refusing to do so, you only prove that your initial claim was baseless trolling.

Tipia its like proving there is a moon or a sun or air, or wind. Its there for all to see or feel and can be recognized by all if you accept what you see.

Once again the tipia decoy ploy. people are starting to see thru you. I could post proof in your own hand writing with your own signature and you would still continue to argue. Why is that you ask?

Because that’s just what professional forum trolls do.
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#2932 - 2014-02-09 02:42:10 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
professional forum trolls



its troo

we gett payd wel for dis

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal

E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#2933 - 2014-02-09 02:43:02 UTC
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Not surprising as always you only read what you want out of whats said. Its not the Bible you cant just quote one line of scripture.
…and yet, that is exactly what you were doing.

The fact remains: the bounty reduction was not there to minimise inflation. They completely retracted that early statement. It was very blatantly there to incentivise the use of ESS, as the discussion in the feedback threads clearly show.

Quote:
And you call me a liar?
Considering how often you lie, it's a pretty good thing to call you.

Calling you and others like you forum trolls is truth as given by your own hand and by your own posting. You should plead the fifth and stop incriminating yourself.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2934 - 2014-02-09 02:47:40 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Tipia its like proving there is a moon or a sun or air, or wind.
So it should be easy, and yet you can't.

So we can trivially conclude that what you said was false. You lied.

Quote:
Calling you and others like you forum trolls is truth as given by your own hand and by your own posting.
…and yet you can't prove it. And yet, you posts, not ours, keep getting deleted. And yet you keep lying; keep relying on fallacies; keep stacking up the abuse; and keep avoiding having to present any kind of actual argument or proof as if it were a plague.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#2935 - 2014-02-09 02:53:46 UTC
As the thread has run its' course and has turned into trolling, off topic posts, and personal attacks, I'll just close this thread down. Thank you.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department