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New BC's are glass cannons?
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ThisIsntMyMain
Doomheim
#41 - 2011-11-26 11:34:57 UTC
The new Tier 3 BC's are not "intended" to do anything by CCP. Their high DPS is simply balanced by lack of tank and their design is an experiment. What they get used for is entirely up to the players. I don't think anybody really knows yet what they will be best for - but the Jita undock is likely to see quite a few of them.
Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2011-11-26 12:25:19 UTC
Took an extended break halfway through writing this; when I got back the thread had gained two and a half pages. Oh well, point still stands SO:

Quote:
Okay I'm going to try to get this post right the first time.

The role of a Tier 3 battlecruiser appears to be a fleet support ship. It has high damage output, but requires a fleet to defend it to be effective. In effect, it's a subcapital supercapital (or a subcapital post-Crucible supercapital). This is quite simply Perfectly Fine. If it could fit a heavy tank in addition to its battleship-size weapons, it would effectively become a low-end battleship rather than a specialty battlecruiser.

tweeten

One day they woke me up so I could live forever

It's such a shame the same will never happen to you
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2011-11-26 12:28:31 UTC
@OP:

Emo.

Crying for cryings sake.
Please don't ever breed.
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2011-11-26 13:20:27 UTC
OP is right actually. Well, at least at some points.
My point of view is those ships is a waste of time and money:

- DPS is done with BS sized guns. Which means they can't hit well targets up to the cruiser size.
- No Drones except Talos. Which means every ship that is smaller then a cruiser can eat you alive.
- No Tank or very little. Well I actually don't mind that. Glass cannon should have low HP, but high utility and versatility, sadly those BCs don't have utility nor versatility.
- The price is too high. t1 BS might cost you less. If I was to choose between t3 BC and t1 BS I'd take Phoon or Domi for sure. Those BCs can't compare to them.
- Making a PvP ship only is a fail. 80% of this game is about PvE. Carebears and others outnumber everything.
- The role of those ships itself is a bit useless and can be replaced with another ship type easily.

Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html
seany1212
M Y S T
#45 - 2011-11-26 13:26:00 UTC
ThisIsntMyMain wrote:
The new Tier 3 BC's are not "intended" to do anything by CCP. Their high DPS is simply balanced by lack of tank and their design is an experiment. What they get used for is entirely up to the players. I don't think anybody really knows yet what they will be best for - but the Jita undock is likely to see quite a few of them.


This, but moreso they fit as an anti-capital role, being able to put high dps down on larger targets while having a small Sig radius and agile
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#46 - 2011-11-26 13:26:16 UTC
The Oracle won't be. Clearly somebody needs to go back and read all the descriptions carefully. The only one they specifically stated would be a glass cannon is the Talos.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#47 - 2011-11-26 13:28:55 UTC
The oracle has the same damage potential as a nightmare. It is cap stable and fits into wormholes just beautifully.
It's not our fault that OP doesn't have the brightest bit of imagination on how to use these ships.

OP - quit EVE, you suck at it.
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2011-11-26 13:37:25 UTC
bebe kitteh wrote:
I have one very real question:
"why are the new third teir Battlecruisers that are cappable of firing Battleship weapons, made of paper?"
Seriously, change the name, skill requirements and call these "T2 destroyers".


Haha, ok.

bebe kitteh wrote:
based on what I read about the blaster tweak/rebalance, who in the hell is going to equip a nagga with 'blasters'? Missiles are the caldari racial weapon, so why is the naga a BLASTER BOAT?


Aha! That is what this is really about.

bebe kitteh wrote:
I am not lining up to buy plex to buy and fit one of these "t2 destroyers".


No one is asking you to.

bebe kitteh wrote:
there is a massive balance problem right now. that being pirate faction ships.
can the empires get a clue, and reverse engineer some of these things?


Ah, I stand corrected, this is what this is actually about.

bebe kitteh wrote:
I mean, holly hell! with a set of Halo implants the dramiel has a 27 signature, a POD has 25 signature!
comparing the pod to a dramiel,, and then using the same ratios to improve every ship in the game would be NICE!


Confirmed, OP is a pirate faction ship whine.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2011-11-26 15:51:24 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
OP is right actually. Well, at least at some points.
My point of view is those ships is a waste of time and money:

- DPS is done with BS sized guns. Which means they can't hit well targets up to the cruiser size.
- No Drones except Talos. Which means every ship that is smaller then a cruiser can eat you alive.
- No Tank or very little. Well I actually don't mind that. Glass cannon should have low HP, but high utility and versatility, sadly those BCs don't have utility nor versatility.
- The price is too high. t1 BS might cost you less. If I was to choose between t3 BC and t1 BS I'd take Phoon or Domi for sure. Those BCs can't compare to them.
- Making a PvP ship only is a fail. 80% of this game is about PvE. Carebears and others outnumber everything.
- The role of those ships itself is a bit useless and can be replaced with another ship type easily.

1. Destroyer packs destroy a hulk quickly
2. Upscale that to the tier 3 battlecruiser
3. Fly in small gangs (not just for ganking)
4. Put in an oven preheated to 425 degrees while your 3 braincells fire in sequence
5. DING! Dinner is ready! Watch those cruiser and normal battlecruisers gangs upscale to BS gun cruiser gangs. They pack decent tank with logi back up with greater firepower. So if you run a gang of 6 guys and say 2 of them now fly a Tornado, with logistic back up and a tackler....skies the limit. Got quick agile snipers to warp in with 1400mm guns. Got OMGWTBBQ!!! firepower with 800mm guns and I imagine if the target (assuming at least cruiser or larger) is web to hell its going to melt quickly. You guys with BC 5, just train T2 large guns (like 4 weeks) and now you got a POS basher (should you be inclined) in the size of a BC. What else can you do with a a tier 3 ship I haven't thought up yet?

For lowsec warfare, I can see the tier 3 BC as a good DPS support ship and you can finish off the target quicker (self destructing freighter?) then GTFO before the target's support get there.
John Caesse
Just Post Inc.
#50 - 2011-11-26 16:35:08 UTC
Fix My Lasers wrote:
- Making a PvP ship only is a fail. 80% of this game is about PvE. Carebears and others outnumber everything.


They'll be fine for belt ratting in 0.0

Just like stealth bombers, HACs, and other PVP focused speed/sig tanking glass cannon ships.
Borun Tal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2011-11-26 16:44:54 UTC
bebe kitteh wrote:
I have one very real question:
"why are the new third teir Battlecruisers that are cappable of firing Battleship weapons, made of paper?"


CCP secretly wants to see the glorious return of Helicity and Hulkageddon with new cheap ships intended to deal out awesome damage in one or two shots... :)

I for one await the return of Hulkageddon and the new T3 blueprints. Stocking up minerals now. :)
Baden Luskan
Freeworlds Collective
#52 - 2011-11-26 18:21:47 UTC
bebe kitteh wrote:
just imagine, how I felt.
la la la, I have earned a tengu!
la la la, let's explore low sec...

I fitt HAMS, max range with all the bells and whistles: 47 KM. Ugh

146 km a mach fires.... booms!

12 KM to the gate,
who do you think will win?


So, you set up a Tengu for short range combat (Heavy Assault Launchers) and then are frustrated when a long range sniping ship has greater range than you?

Plus, I dont know what kind of Tengu you fly, but the oens I am in can esily withstand the damage a Mach can do in the time it would take to slow-boat it back to a gate. You put an afterburner or a micro-warp drive on the Tengu and I doubt he would be able ot even lock you before you jumped.

One last thing.....if you are exploring low sec in a Tengu without a cloak or an Interdiction Nullifier, then you do not need to explor anything past a 0.5 system until you have a better grasp of game mechanics.
Thomas Abernathy
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2011-11-26 18:21:54 UTC
bebe kitteh wrote:
just imagine, how I felt.
la la la, I have earned a tengu!
la la la, let's explore low sec...

I fitt HAMS, max range with all the bells and whistles: 47 KM. Ugh

146 km a mach fires.... booms!

12 KM to the gate,
who do you think will win?


Properly fit, the Tengu should have walked back to the gate with no trouble...
If it didn't you need to actually skill up some defensive stuff.

"Fighting CCD since 2139"
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#54 - 2011-11-26 18:23:33 UTC
OP didn't get the memo or the >9000 dev blogs on the subject.
Thomas Abernathy
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#55 - 2011-11-26 18:24:01 UTC
Odd, I thought the new BC's were specificlly built for killing defenseless Mom's? Shocked

"Fighting CCD since 2139"
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#56 - 2011-11-26 20:09:09 UTC
They are supposed to be glass cannons, that was stated in the dev blog about them. But the op of course is like all the other forum whiners and cannot read.

Also, they do have a role. They are great capital gankers. Their speed an manueverability just make them great for ganking capitals.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#57 - 2011-11-26 21:18:29 UTC
The T3's are glass cannons.
Their design and fittings makes them perfect for solo ganking Hulks, but we all know that no-one does that. Roll

I doubt there is any role for these ships that can't be filled by another ship that already exists. Wars have been fought just fine without them for years.

Profit favors the prepared
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#58 - 2011-11-26 21:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Kinis Deren wrote:
bebe kitteh wrote:
I have one very real question:
"why are the new third teir Battlecruisers that are cappable of firing Battleship weapons, made of paper?"
.......



My understanding is that the new Tier 3 BC are intended for a specific purpose, which is an effective weapon against capital ship dominated fleets. This encourages diversity of fleet compositions, since a good FC will have to consider a counter to the possibility of bumping into a fleet with a healthy compliment of Tier 3 BCs.

Respectfully, I don't believe that the intention was to create a new FOTM solo mission ship and I guess that having a 'glass tank' prevents this. I like the look of the Tornado but I'll probably be sticking with my Hurricane for solo/small gang roams.


Entirely correct except that the new Tier 3 BC primary role is to be ideal for small roaming gangs. It's secondary role will be to be a good choice vs enemy capital ships.

Currently Battleships and Battle Cruisers have difficulty in fast moving gangs. The new Battle Cruisers bring Battle Ship class damage to these gangs in a nimble platform that can easily keep up. They also lend themselves well to the warp in/kill/warp out tactics these gangs often employ.

VS Caps they will be a good choice considering their speed and small sig radius (for a BC) when being targeted by Cap class weaponry in relation to the firepower they can put out.

Suicide ganks, while an ideal use for them, will rank 3rd in terms of raw numbers of these ships used for that purpose.

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Crystal Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#59 - 2011-11-26 21:38:36 UTC
bebe kitteh wrote:
I have one very real question:
"why are the new third teir Battlecruisers that are cappable of firing Battleship weapons, made of paper?"
...


You answered your own question Roll
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#60 - 2011-11-26 21:41:18 UTC
OP, using a ship that falls into the "glass cannon" category requires a very different mind set and tactics than flying a heavy tank. You always need to be mindful of when your targets attention shifts to you and be ready to reposition quickly if your speed/traversal/range is not sufficient to keep you intact.

Your primary tenant is to hit hard and fast, get out quickly when necessary (so don't get tackled), and get back in to apply that massive damage again as quickly as possible. You must maintain a much higher level of situational awareness then most heavy tank pilots do.

It's not everyone's preference, but can be quite enjoyable once you get the hang of it. Ask any SB pilot.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.