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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#781 - 2014-02-07 18:53:26 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
This change does nothing meanigful really to drone assist doctrines. It mayby fuzzes the amount of damage landing at once, by making more people have to lock up one target and hit F1 at the same time, but that is about it really.

The "fix" doesn't really fix anything. You can still flood the grid with drones and still achieve the same results as now, but with just one extra hoop to jump through. Now if ships had an assist bandwith, that idea has promise, and might actually help solve the drone assist debacle.

The thing is, even that doesn't solve the main problem in that drones are basically minature ships acording to the server. They have to be tracked, moved, possitions plotted, and all the rest of the calculations that happen with ships on a grid, have to also be calculated for each single drone as well.


Removing collision detection for drones (if is is present) would not hinder game play in any way. I note that drones get stuck in pos shields, so there must be some form of awareness of their position and nearby objects.

Collision detection run time scales geometrically. This is a bad thing in computer science.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#782 - 2014-02-07 18:54:59 UTC
drone assist is legalised botting. This drone user wants it removed altogether. Why is it wrong to make pilots fly their ships?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#783 - 2014-02-07 19:07:20 UTC
Land on grid, launch drones, assigning drones and alt-tab to watch porn.

I'm sure you guys will miss that.

The Tears Must Flow
Dave Stark
#784 - 2014-02-07 19:12:18 UTC
If the drone limit is kept at 50, and people in incursions will potentially have to manually assign drones. will we get a third set of tags for frigates? currently we have letters and numbers and they're used for sniper and dps targets.

what are we going to use to tag frigates with?
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#785 - 2014-02-07 19:14:36 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
If the drone limit is kept at 50, and people in incursions will potentially have to manually assign drones. will we get a third set of tags for frigates? currently we have letters and numbers and they're used for sniper and dps targets.

what are we going to use to tag frigates with?


ctrl-x ?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Dave Stark
#786 - 2014-02-07 19:16:49 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
If the drone limit is kept at 50, and people in incursions will potentially have to manually assign drones. will we get a third set of tags for frigates? currently we have letters and numbers and they're used for sniper and dps targets.

what are we going to use to tag frigates with?


ctrl-x ?


will be honest, i'm unfamiliar with that shortcut.
Ran
BalaGun
#787 - 2014-02-07 19:25:13 UTC
i thing - It's a bad idea. Make its possible to warp on centrydrones
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#788 - 2014-02-07 19:26:33 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
If the drone limit is kept at 50, and people in incursions will potentially have to manually assign drones. will we get a third set of tags for frigates? currently we have letters and numbers and they're used for sniper and dps targets.

what are we going to use to tag frigates with?


ctrl-x ?


will be honest, i'm unfamiliar with that shortcut.


forgive me I mean to say X-click. i.e. designate a target in the overview.

But to widen the subject a little, I appreciate that people like to run incursions and the name of the game is maximisation of riskless return. My view is that while it seems appealing to be able to earn 100m isk per hour in hisec with no real risk of loss, it is not good for eve.

A change that reduces that to 99m isk per hour is a (small) step in the right direction.

My personal (considered) view is that all incursions add to the game is monetary inflation. There is no skill involved since the sites are formulaic. After running a few I was bored to tears.

I have no problem with the idea of a pvp-like form of pve in eve, but incursions in their current form do not provide this experience.

If common sense prevails and drone assist is eventually removed, the small impact on incursion income is not really a factor that should be considered, in my view.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Dave Stark
#789 - 2014-02-07 19:33:02 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
If the drone limit is kept at 50, and people in incursions will potentially have to manually assign drones. will we get a third set of tags for frigates? currently we have letters and numbers and they're used for sniper and dps targets.

what are we going to use to tag frigates with?


ctrl-x ?


will be honest, i'm unfamiliar with that shortcut.


forgive me I mean to say X-click. i.e. designate a target in the overview.

But to widen the subject a little, I appreciate that people like to run incursions and the name of the game is maximisation of riskless return. My view is that while it seems appealing to be able to earn 100m isk per hour in hisec with no real risk of loss, it is not good for eve.

A change that reduces that to 99m isk per hour is a (small) step in the right direction.

My personal (considered) view is that all incursions add to the game is monetary inflation. There is no skill involved since the sites are formulaic. After running a few I was bored to tears.

I have no problem with the idea of a pvp-like form of pve in eve, but incursions in their current form do not provide this experience.

If common sense prevails and drone assist is eventually removed, the small impact on incursion income is not really a factor that should be considered, in my view.



lock times are long in battleships; tags let you lock multiple things to minimise time switching between targets. doing it one by one means you're waiting for lock times in addition to the death of the previous ships. that's why things are tagged, not broadcasted currently.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#790 - 2014-02-07 19:40:51 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
If the drone limit is kept at 50, and people in incursions will potentially have to manually assign drones. will we get a third set of tags for frigates? currently we have letters and numbers and they're used for sniper and dps targets.

what are we going to use to tag frigates with?


Really? That is a concern? Why not use A-M = sniper targets and N-Z = DDD targets? Or put DDD in own squad and broadcast targets to squad in order? Oh, right, I forgot, that would be :effort:
Dave Stark
#791 - 2014-02-07 19:53:15 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
If the drone limit is kept at 50, and people in incursions will potentially have to manually assign drones. will we get a third set of tags for frigates? currently we have letters and numbers and they're used for sniper and dps targets.

what are we going to use to tag frigates with?


Really? That is a concern? Why not use A-M = sniper targets and N-Z = DDD targets? Or put DDD in own squad and broadcast targets to squad in order? Oh, right, I forgot, that would be :effort:


alternatively why should we have to faff around when there's already a perfectly fine, but limited, mechanic for this sort of thing?

then again they could have just not put the limit at 50 and actually realised there are 200 drones in an incursion fleet and set the limit accordingly since they didn't want to mess up incursions but yeah. whatever.

for a feedback thread there's really a lot of shitting on people for asking legitimate questions about an idea that hasn't been fully finished.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#792 - 2014-02-07 20:07:45 UTC
So I'm gonna make my first post of the thread here.

Ignore what Rise said about "not affecting incursioners" for a moment. Can someone explain to me why incursion runners think they're entitled be exempted having to adapt to change?

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#793 - 2014-02-07 20:14:51 UTC
mynnna wrote:
So I'm gonna make my first post of the thread here.

Ignore what Rise said about "not affecting incursioners" for a moment. Can someone explain to me why incursion runners think they're entitled be exempted having to adapt to change?


Because of reasons. Don't you know that? Twisted
Dave Stark
#794 - 2014-02-07 20:20:59 UTC
mynnna wrote:
So I'm gonna make my first post of the thread here.

Ignore what Rise said about "not affecting incursioners" for a moment. Can someone explain to me why incursion runners think they're entitled be exempted having to adapt to change?


ignoring blobs of carriers, why should we have to change drone assist at all?
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#795 - 2014-02-07 20:23:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Falin Whalen
mynnna wrote:
So I'm gonna make my first post of the thread here.

Ignore what Rise said about "not affecting incursioners" for a moment. Can someone explain to me why incursion runners think they're entitled be exempted having to adapt to change?

Because reasons, and stuff, and I'm going to take my eleventy different alts and unsub all of them, and pout in a corner if CCP doesn't stop nerfing my things that make me loads of ISKies in almost complete safety.X

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#796 - 2014-02-07 20:31:39 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
mynnna wrote:
So I'm gonna make my first post of the thread here.

Ignore what Rise said about "not affecting incursioners" for a moment. Can someone explain to me why incursion runners think they're entitled be exempted having to adapt to change?


ignoring blobs of carriers, why should we have to change drone assist at all?

So no, there isn't an explanation for the entitlement, then?

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#797 - 2014-02-07 20:31:43 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Ignore what Rise said about "not affecting incursioners" for a moment. Can someone explain to me why incursion runners think they're entitled be exempted having to adapt to change?


Rise seemed to agree, why else would he even single out the incursion community in his post? Oh right, we have to ignore that for this little "lol highsec" circlejerk exercise.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Dave Stark
#798 - 2014-02-07 20:38:09 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
mynnna wrote:
So I'm gonna make my first post of the thread here.

Ignore what Rise said about "not affecting incursioners" for a moment. Can someone explain to me why incursion runners think they're entitled be exempted having to adapt to change?


ignoring blobs of carriers, why should we have to change drone assist at all?

So no, there isn't an explanation for the entitlement, then?

there isn't any entitlement anyway, then again ignoring half of the facts to pose a rhetorical question was hardly going to lead to a worth while answer or discussion. we both know that.

there's a contradiction we've asked for clarification on, then i asked a totally separate question relating to expanding a current mechanic to make up for rise's butchery of a game mechanic that currently isn't causing any issues.

just for the sake of having a pointless rhetorical question in the post; why must incursion runners suffer a crap change just to appease a few whining 0.0 dwellers?
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#799 - 2014-02-07 20:39:45 UTC
CCP's been known to tweak before, y'know. Put a good enough explanation forward and maybe it'll happen here, too, but "we like it this way and don't want to change" probably won't cut it.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#800 - 2014-02-07 20:41:20 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
mynnna wrote:
So I'm gonna make my first post of the thread here.

Ignore what Rise said about "not affecting incursioners" for a moment. Can someone explain to me why incursion runners think they're entitled be exempted having to adapt to change?


ignoring blobs of carriers, why should we have to change drone assist at all?


Because drone assist is legalised botting. Weren't you listening?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".