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R.I.P. Bullets, "The Last Round you will ever need" ...
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Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#1 - 2014-01-31 20:40:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Brujo Loco
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#2 - 2014-01-31 20:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
That'll be outlawed post-haste.

Edit:
Allow me to expand (heh!) on that:
Some thirty years ago, the US Army developed*, via the Ballistics Reseaarch Laboratory and Human Engineering Laboratory, a pistol round that did what this bullet does, without the excessive over-penetration that this round shows; IOW ALL energy was dumped in the distance of about 2/3 the depth of an average human torso with multiple symmetrically-radial major wound paths. It was a really lethal round, especially for pistols. It was so lethal that Every. Single. Round. had serial numbers - including on the frangible bits - and had to be signed in and out individually. That means that if you signed out seven rounds, you signed your name to seven reciepts, each reciept for a single round.

The consequences of general-issue of such a round were so daunting that the Army - an organization which exists for the sole purpose of applying organized violence in support of our nation's policies - chose to discontinue and bury the development of that bullet.

If the US Army is so afraid of such a design, you can be damned certain that the Government will come down on this HARD.


*How do I know this? My father was directly involved. I've actually laid eyes on the bullets in-question, before the Army's lawyers shat their collective pants and burried the project.
Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
#3 - 2014-01-31 21:57:41 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
That'll be outlawed post-haste.

Edit:
Allow me to expand (heh!) on that:
Some thirty years ago, the US Army developed*, via the Ballistics Reseaarch Laboratory and Human Engineering Laboratory, a pistol round that did what this bullet does, without the excessive over-penetration that this round shows; IOW ALL energy was dumped in the distance of about 2/3 the depth of an average human torso with multiple symmetrically-radial major wound paths. It was a really lethal round, especially for pistols. It was so lethal that Every. Single. Round. had serial numbers - including on the frangible bits - and had to be signed in and out individually. That means that if you signed out seven rounds, you signed your name to seven reciepts, each reciept for a single round.

The consequences of general-issue of such a round were so daunting that the Army - an organization which exists for the sole purpose of applying organized violence in support of our nation's policies - chose to discontinue and bury the development of that bullet.

If the US Army is so afraid of such a design, you can be damned certain that the Government will come down on this HARD.


*How do I know this? My father was directly involved. I've actually laid eyes on the bullets in-question, before the Army's lawyers shat their collective pants and burried the project.



Here is the problem.

Thirty years ago, was just that. The Army COULD bury the project. Now that it's in public development, the U.S. government could only ban the sale, possession, and production of them. All this will achieve in today's world unfortunately, is the ammunition being manufactured in another country and brought in illegally. I imagine organizations like drug cartels would be interested in obtaining these by the container load.



Expect to see this in your local E.R. sooner than you would like.

Dan




Honey Never Sleeps. - John Russell
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#4 - 2014-02-01 00:01:20 UTC
And this is why I'm glad I don't live in America.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#5 - 2014-02-01 04:06:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Dan Seavey Allier wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
That'll be outlawed post-haste.

Edit:
Allow me to expand (heh!) on that:
Some thirty years ago, the US Army developed*, via the Ballistics Reseaarch Laboratory and Human Engineering Laboratory, a pistol round that did what this bullet does, without the excessive over-penetration that this round shows; IOW ALL energy was dumped in the distance of about 2/3 the depth of an average human torso with multiple symmetrically-radial major wound paths. It was a really lethal round, especially for pistols. It was so lethal that Every. Single. Round. had serial numbers - including on the frangible bits - and had to be signed in and out individually. That means that if you signed out seven rounds, you signed your name to seven reciepts, each reciept for a single round.

The consequences of general-issue of such a round were so daunting that the Army - an organization which exists for the sole purpose of applying organized violence in support of our nation's policies - chose to discontinue and bury the development of that bullet.

If the US Army is so afraid of such a design, you can be damned certain that the Government will come down on this HARD.


*How do I know this? My father was directly involved. I've actually laid eyes on the bullets in-question, before the Army's lawyers shat their collective pants and burried the project.



Here is the problem.

Thirty years ago, was just that. The Army COULD bury the project. Now that it's in public development, the U.S. government could only ban the sale, possession, and production of them. All this will achieve in today's world unfortunately, is the ammunition being manufactured in another country and brought in illegally. I imagine organizations like drug cartels would be interested in obtaining these by the container load.



Expect to see this in your local E.R. sooner than you would like.

Dan





Yes, the government can, and will ban various things it doesn't like.

Don't expect there to be any black market in these - 1) there are plenty of less 'scary' munitions that are far easier to get, that won't cost even remotely as much, 2) other governments generally have *tougher* restrictions on munitions than the US does, and 3) Those folks as do find some way to lay hands on anything like this are highly unlikely to be the kind of low-grade moron that uses their very expensive ammunition in ways that will end up in an ER - THOSE kinds of folks are the ones buying whatever is cheap and easy to find.

Edit:
Oh, and Glasers are legal, and more efficient - No over-penetration there.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-02-01 06:23:13 UTC
3 videos that look like advertising by the company producing the bullets. I wonder if there are any inconvenient details the videos fail to mention.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#7 - 2014-02-03 01:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Expect the hypocrisy of the state, claiming to care for everybody, banning the sale and possession of these bullets, and then giving them to the police, police who are already getting away with routinely as they shoot first then make up stories later while claiming they felt threatened.

Nobody will point out that shooting someone, even with a non-lethal round stops them from doing the crime they were doing, and the police would not need such a round.

But this is the country that gives police machine guns and tanks while saying semi-automatic rifles "need to be taken off the street".


Americans will be concerned about some celebrity or something. 'Mocracy.


I make my own bullets. All I need is one of these, and no ban will make them go away. Twisted

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#8 - 2014-02-03 16:59:21 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


Americans will be concerned about some celebrity or something. 'Mocracy.


I make my own bullets. All I need is one of these, and no ban will make them go away. Twisted

Truth.
Though lead is going to be increasingly hard to get.

Look into sintered metal swaged bullets, and alternative heavy metals like bismuth.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#9 - 2014-02-06 22:18:33 UTC
Did you know....
Dum dum bullets were banned in the late 19th century by international treaty. (A dum dum bullet is a regular bullet with a grooved sawed in one side to make it tumble-- I think). British soldiers in South Africa were using them in South Africa, and journalists reported the nasty damage they caused. That disturbed the civilized ladies and gentlemen in Europe, there was a campaign against them, and an international treaty was signed by about all Western countries. Dum dum bullets are still outlawed, I think.

Which is kind of silly, if you think about it. They didn't ban all kinds of other things that cause nasty, nasty damage: lances, sabers, bayonets, hand grenades, .50 caliber machine gun rounds, 211 mm artillery shells, land mines, poisonous gas, etc. It's kind of like outlawing jelly donuts, but leaving all of the other donuts legal.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#10 - 2014-02-07 18:21:18 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Did you know....
(A dum dum bullet is a regular bullet with a grooved sawed in one side to make it tumble-- I think).
Nope. Tumbling makes accuracy go straight into the toilet. A 'Dum-Dum' is a bullet with a slot or crossed slots cut into the nose to cause massive expansion in flesh. Also frequently results in fragmentation and secondary wound channels. Massive damage. The modern analogues are soft-point and hollow-point expanding bullets.

Quote:
British soldiers in South Africa were using them in South Africa, and journalists reported the nasty damage they caused. That disturbed the civilized ladies and gentlemen in Europe, there was a campaign against them, and an international treaty was signed by about all Western countries.
Like the soft lead bullets used in the American Civil War, "Dum-Dums' create horrifically-damaging wounds. Civilized gentlemen are only supposed to try killing their enemies, not tear them apart. Roll

Quote:
Dum dum bullets are still outlawed, I think.
Militarilly-speaking, yes. Well, actually, not quite. Those nations whom follow the Hague and Geneva Conventions are barred from using ammunition designed to 'deliberately create great and unnecessary harm and suffering.' Techincally, that might well mean you shouldn't use .50 BMG as a sniper rifle round versus humans - But it still happens.

That said, no current military issues expanding bullets as general combat ammunition. They DO however, issue expanding bullets to troops employed in policing situations - Expanding bullets are less prone to over-penetration, and riccochet less, so are safer to use in confined quarters where you don't wish to risk injury to by-standers. Standard "Ball" (solid point) bullets are not terribly reliable as man-killers, but they do a great job of wounding, which is actually more useful - Every wounded soldier is a logistics and manpower drag on your enemy, thus making it harder for them to wage war.

Quote:
Which is kind of silly, if you think about it.
Many things in war are silly. Traditional practice has greater hold than you'd think.