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Going into industrial

Author
Daenerys Elvellonwen
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-02-07 15:41:31 UTC
Hello,

Got a question regarding being an industrial character. I read up on forums but they are quite in depth. Skill set wise I pretty much got them. My only confusion is:

Are research and manufacturing advisable to be trained into one account? Or should I do one character research and another one manufacturing?
Dreadchain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-02-07 16:21:08 UTC
Hi,

Research and manufacturing are easily trained on a single character as they do not share production slots and are not very SP intensive (Unless you plan to do invention).

www.minerbumping.com

Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#3 - 2014-02-07 17:24:59 UTC

I'd like to stress a point in the above post - 'one character.' Training multiple characters by pausing the training que on your 'main' character is not a great route to take. Mostly because you end up training a large quantity of fundamental skills and could've gotten the skills quicker on your 'main.' Notable exceptions? PI Alts (Planetary Interaction).

Also, PLEXing a second character isn't a starter activity. You can, but it increases the cost of the game and can turn it into a second job.
Daenerys Elvellonwen
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-02-07 17:30:20 UTC
There's invention as well? Goodness me. So, manufacturing and research can be in the same account. What about invention then? I'm not planning to plex and duo train. I'm considering whether I should have one or two accounts based on wanting to do all the industry "jobs" possible.
NightCrawler 85
Phoibe Enterprises
#5 - 2014-02-07 17:42:11 UTC  |  Edited by: NightCrawler 85
Having one character that can do all the industry professions is fully possible and often people do exactly that Big smile

While most end up training alts there is really nothing stopping you from using just one character for all your needs.
Centis Adjani
Adjani Corporation
#6 - 2014-02-07 17:44:55 UTC
You can do all the industrial stuff with one account.
You can do anything with one account, it's just a matter of skill time...

More about Invention < here and there > Invention

And this is a great complete Manufacturing Guide
Daenerys Elvellonwen
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-02-07 17:49:47 UTC
Thanks for the replies. And I'll check out the guide.
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-02-07 18:38:24 UTC
While Centis' links are excellent, here's the quick answer:

Manufacturing -> building modules from blueprints
Research -> improving blueprint originals
Invention -> creating T2 blueprints

Note: Manufacturing T2 and T3 items requires much more skills than T1 manufacturing. Also, there's a large overlap between the skills required for T2 manufacturing and Invention, so it's usually done on the same character.
Qalix
Long Jump.
#9 - 2014-02-07 19:33:22 UTC
There are many different approaches you can take. Most serious industrialists run multiple accounts, because the ultimate limiting factor on any one character is the total number of available production/whatever slots and time per job. Together, they represent the total possible production/whatever time per character. The more involved the product, the longer the times and thus the less total number of jobs completed. As you move up the chain to more advanced jobs, you'll need to create several different tiers of materials, which takes up more time, etc, etc. Invention eats slots like crazy.

Then there are the logistics and trading sides to the operation. Acquiring production materials is also part of the setup. Once you've got a pile of ISK, you can buy your materials. But until then, you'll probably have to harvest them yourself. That will require ships/training and time. Then the hauling materials issue will crop up and you'll need a ship/training for that. Which will lead to bigger ships with bigger holds and more training time and more ISK. Industry is a rabbit hole.

I know it might seem a little uptight to say this, but before your start training heavily into an industry character, start doing the math now to figure out character training and all the "administrative overhead" of running an industry setup. The training times are pretty long to get to the T2 stuff that sells for decent money. The tradtional path is usually mining first to build your wallet and basic ship skills. Mining usually leads to hauling, which often leads to a second account. And then its down the rabbit hole!

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#10 - 2014-02-07 20:10:47 UTC
Daenerys Elvellonwen wrote:

Are research and manufacturing advisable to be trained into one account? Or should I do one character research and another one manufacturing?


Train them both, plus invention on the same acct. They all use many of the same skills.

Another possibility is to train basic hauler skills as well on the acct. I'll tell you why. You have all these research skills so you may as well learn to farm data cores. You'll be wanting them (a lot of them) eventually for T2 invention and you get them through having standing with a research corp.

The best way to get standing is to buy it. But short of that, for a manufacturer that doesn't want to spend forever training combat skills, courier missions are the way to go. You can run courier missions in a T1 hauler as well as moving minerals to your building facility. Win/win for such a small SP investment.

Mr Epeen Cool
Daenerys Elvellonwen
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-02-08 03:22:01 UTC
Qalix wrote:
There are many different approaches you can take. Most serious industrialists run multiple accounts, because the ultimate limiting factor on any one character is the total number of available production/whatever slots and time per job. Together, they represent the total possible production/whatever time per character. The more involved the product, the longer the times and thus the less total number of jobs completed. As you move up the chain to more advanced jobs, you'll need to create several different tiers of materials, which takes up more time, etc, etc. Invention eats slots like crazy.


thanks for this info.
Daenerys Elvellonwen
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-02-08 03:23:43 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:

Another possibility is to train basic hauler skills as well on the acct. I'll tell you why. You have all these research skills so you may as well learn to farm data cores.


this. is this the exploration in the tutorial? hacking, relic site ect?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-02-08 04:18:23 UTC
Daenerys Elvellonwen wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:

Another possibility is to train basic hauler skills as well on the acct. I'll tell you why. You have all these research skills so you may as well learn to farm data cores.


this. is this the exploration in the tutorial? hacking, relic site ect?


Nope. Data cores come from R&D agents. You aquire a fixed rate of Research Points (RP) a day with the agent. Which can be exchanged to datacores.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#14 - 2014-02-08 04:47:48 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Data cores come from R&D agents.


Some Datacores come from exploration, and of course there are the FW LP stores.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#15 - 2014-02-08 05:02:41 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
Data cores come from R&D agents.


Some Datacores come from exploration, and of course there are the FW LP stores.


Yup. Plenty of places to get them. But if you want to focus train for manufacturing then R&D agents are the only choice that makes sense. Anything else requires you to branch out your training into combat/exploration. Which is fine if that's what you want, but trust me, it's not hard to spend two years just training a good focused builder/inventor. I never add more skills than those specific to my needs on my industrial characters.

On top of that, R&D agents are set and forget. Pure passive if you want. Though you have the option of running a rinky dink mission once a day for some extra research points if you like. The missions are a short delivery that can be done in a shuttle or just giving them some ore that you thought ahead to stockpile in the agents station.

Mr Epeen Cool
Daenerys Elvellonwen
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-02-08 05:24:40 UTC
Okay. i need to read up the guides more. sounds like it isn't a really easy job to go into as a new player. alright. I'll read around more. Maybe logistics because i prefer more of a support role if passive stuff like industries dont work out
Quickining
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-02-08 05:28:23 UTC
Also if you are looking to get into industry, I have a couple of beginner BPO's ican send your way some already researched. they are mainly frigates and ammo but would be a good starting point for invention later on. send me a mail in game and i will contract them your way if your interested.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#18 - 2014-02-08 05:39:21 UTC
Daenerys Elvellonwen wrote:
Okay. i need to read up the guides more. sounds like it isn't a really easy job to go into as a new player. alright. I'll read around more. Maybe logistics because i prefer more of a support role if passive stuff like industries dont work out


Don't let me scare you off. Mechanically it's pretty basic stuff. Just skill intensive with most of the skills at rank 5 and up to rank 14 (yikes) if you want to be building capitals and freighters.

But you can get started with making ammo and stuff fairly quickly and ammo always sells well.

The real art is learning to read the market and plan your builds to maximize (or at least not lose} isk. You need to keep updated on what CCP has coming down the pipe as well. For example if you know they are going to buff Exhumers for instance, you can get a head start and have a bunch already built and ready for market when the price jumps.

So take a shot at it and just get as involved as you want. I'm an old vet so I tend to narrowly focus a lot of characters rather than multipurpose just a few. I forget sometimes what it's like to be starting out.

Mr Epeen Cool
Daenerys Elvellonwen
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-02-08 06:17:18 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:


Don't let me scare you off. Mechanically it's pretty basic stuff. Just skill intensive with most of the skills at rank 5 and up to rank 14 (yikes) if you want to be building capitals and freighters.

But you can get started with making ammo and stuff fairly quickly and ammo always sells well.

The real art is learning to read the market and plan your builds to maximize (or at least not lose} isk. You need to keep updated on what CCP has coming down the pipe as well. For example if you know they are going to buff Exhumers for instance, you can get a head start and have a bunch already built and ready for market when the price jumps.

So take a shot at it and just get as involved as you want. I'm an old vet so I tend to narrowly focus a lot of characters rather than multipurpose just a few. I forget sometimes what it's like to be starting out.

Mr Epeen Cool


Not much of bring "scared off". just want to plan ahead. read guides with overviews of what are the different roles. just that it's not in depth enough so I'm asking in forums to get a more general view on things. I haven't skilled up much yet. Holding on before I decide. I got my drones pretty average. With guns and piloting skills average. Trained science and industries to 3 and holding up before I commit too much. Industries or logistics will be my choices while I figure out more for now.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#20 - 2014-02-08 06:35:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Mr Epeen wrote:
Yup. Plenty of places to get them. But if you want to focus train for manufacturing then R&D agents are the only choice that makes sense.


Having been through the standings grind with one too many R&D corporations, I would heartily suggest that anyone looking for data cores just invest in Trade skills rather than building standings with Boundless Creation, Duvolle and friends. In retrospect I would prefer to shove slivers of flint under my fingernails and perhaps watch endless reruns of Justin Beiber concerts, than recommend that anyone other than the most extreme masochists go through that standings grind.

Honestly, the "income" from data cores was nerfed so heavily by CCP "I hate passive income" Soundwave that it's only worth using R&D agents if you already could before the nerf.

Spend the time you would otherwise have wasted on "Research Project Management" training up something useful like Multitasking or whatever it's called these days. An infinitely more useful skill for an industrially-focussed character would be Refinery Efficiency, Marketing, Retail, Scientific Networking, Anchoring, or «race» Encryption Methods.

WHY WOULD YOU RECOMMEND R&D AGENTS TO A NEW PLAYER? DO YOU PULL THE WINGS OFF FLIES AND TIE TIN CANS TO CATS TAILS? WHAT KIND OF MALCONTENT ARE YOU?
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