These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Advanced Controlled Bursts skill
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2014-02-07 12:32:25 UTC
Having a second skill that does the same as the "Controlled Bursts" skill would be great. -X% cap use for turrets per level.
Maybe it can be a T2 turret effect that only works on T2 turrets (or works 50% as much on t1 turrets and full 100% effect on t2 turrets).

Thoughts?
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#2 - 2014-02-07 12:33:56 UTC
Why?

Invalid signature format
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2014-02-07 12:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
Minmatar/caldari ship that don't use cap for its weapons:
Tempest (any guns, passive tank, lots of damage mods): 5400GJ when you start neuting it (not counting cap skills and hardeners).
Apocalypse (2 heatsinks, 8x T2 mega pulse laser, scorch ammo, Controlled Bursts V, perfect capacitor skills, passive EANM2 and DCU2 plated tank and no mids active: The apoc with scorch neuts itself out in 5m 46s. So if you start neuting then you have 0Gj to neut before neuting out the ship. If you start neuting after 3 minutes of apocalypse Scorch fire then you have 4100Gj to neut. With conflagration the apoc is capped out in 230 seconds (3m 50s).
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#4 - 2014-02-07 13:09:11 UTC
Sure, if you are willing to sacrifice instant reloads on lazors and that hellish damage on blasters.

Cap management and inflicting or countering cap warfare is one of those things that very often differentiates victors from defeated. Let's not make choices we make in pvp engagement any less meaningful by introducing skills that are not really making anything better.

Invalid signature format
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#5 - 2014-02-07 13:13:57 UTC
yeah, and we should add advanced trajectory analysis too.

Roll


Also Advanced Advanced Weapon Upgrades. I'm sure everyone would love to train THAT one up to 5.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-02-07 13:14:04 UTC
I fail to see how it would be a good thing to have a skill that does exactly the same as an existing skill. Roll
We already have way too many mandatory skills that you need to fly certain ships in any sensible way.

If there was a problem with cap usage of certain weapons CCP should simply reduce their cap need.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-02-07 13:52:09 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Sure, if you are willing to sacrifice instant reloads on lazors and that hellish damage on blasters.

Cap management and inflicting or countering cap warfare is one of those things that very often differentiates victors from defeated. Let's not make choices we make in pvp engagement any less meaningful by introducing skills that are not really making anything better.



funny thing is if laser users pretend to get that few second break every say 40 shots....they'd help their cap. This would be why hybrids even before buff that changed cap use a bit had longer run times. 10 second breaks every time ammo reloaded to regen cap not having gun drain at the same time added to its longer run times even then.


Want to fire till target dead and even change crystal on the fly...well laser got the caveat of being power hungry to go with it.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2014-02-07 13:58:02 UTC
Schmata, A full complement of T2+Faction crystals (with no additional crystals, just 8 of each), costs anything between 50-90M (Large crystals). That's the MINIMUM amount of ammo I can bring in an apocalypse or abaddon, or I'll be stuffed (the falloff band is very small on lasers, so you need all the ammos so you can hit all ranges). It would like if minmatar had to lug 1500m3 of faction and t2 ammo around with them, at a minimum. Juicy pinatas.

Instant reloads, now there's the reason I went Amarr...

OT: So basically Schmata thinks it would be unbalanced to have less cap use on guns. How, I don't really know.
Somewhat low dps, predictable damage type, huge ammo cost (every time you lose a ship you lose the equivalent of 3 full minmatar holds of ammo), and using cap. That is laser guns. And you think they would be unbalanced if they used slightly less capacitor when a pilot put in subscription time to improve capacitor usage?

Haven't got a clue what Batelle thinks, very constructive post, I am impressed.

Alice Ituin questions the very idea of a skill to rectify a problem, and questions that there is a problem. A philosopher, perhaps.

Zan Shiro, what benefit do you think it is to change crystals? Do you think we can change damage types? Do you think we can change to a crystal with more or less tracking in the same range? Do you think we can change crystals in order to have our optimal slightly closer to the target? Because the only reason Amarr has to change crystals, is because the target is completely out of falloff range. The falloff band is thinner than an Amarr slave supermodel.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#9 - 2014-02-07 14:12:00 UTC
Are you seriously complaining about very short falloff on weapon system that is very capable to have optimal close to 100km?

Invalid signature format
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#10 - 2014-02-07 14:17:59 UTC
Batelle wrote:
yeah, and we should add advanced trajectory analysis too.

Roll


Also Advanced Advanced Weapon Upgrades. I'm sure everyone would love to train THAT one up to 5.


+1 for Advanced Advanced Weapon Upgrades.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#11 - 2014-02-07 14:28:04 UTC
Batelle wrote:
yeah, and we should add advanced trajectory analysis too.

Roll


Also Advanced Advanced Weapon Upgrades. I'm sure everyone would love to train THAT one up to 5.


not forget Advanced Advanced Ship Command!
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#12 - 2014-02-07 14:28:20 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
Batelle wrote:
yeah, and we should add advanced trajectory analysis too.

Roll


Also Advanced Advanced Weapon Upgrades. I'm sure everyone would love to train THAT one up to 5.


+1 for Advanced Advanced Weapon Upgrades.

Perhaps we should make it Ancillary Advanced Advanced Weapon Upgrades, where training speed can be ancillary boosted with bad ideas?

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Ronny Hugo
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2014-02-07 14:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronny Hugo
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Are you seriously complaining about very short falloff on weapon system that is very capable to have optimal close to 100km?


The falloff is relative to optimal. The falloff of lets say L T2 Tachyon beams is 20km (w/o skill bonuses), the equivalent T2 1400mm artillery has 35km falloff (w/o skill bonuses).
Are you seriously mistaking Falloff for optimal?

WHo knows, if we don't have any skills left to train we might unsubscribe Roll We could just remove all skills and make the Eve mantra the rule, "You can fly what you can afford to lose". But then everyone who has lots of SP complains. Same as those without lasers/hybrids complain in this thread.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#14 - 2014-02-07 15:09:17 UTC
You know lasers work better when you don't fire them beyond their optimal, right?

Oh god.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2014-02-07 15:26:45 UTC
Try fitting Energy Discharge Elutriation rigs, cap rechargers or cap boosters.

You chose lasers because of the instant ammo switch and are now asking for the drawbacks to be removed.

You also whine about caldari (guessing you mean missiles) & minmatar weapons being capless, but fail to acknowledge their 10sec reload drawback.

RollRollRoll

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#16 - 2014-02-07 23:22:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaerakh
OP TL;DR: "I don't have enough experience with the game to know that every weapon has a downside and an upside and are actually fairly well balanced."

This is a very very generalized list of the pros and cons of each weapon system. As you can see they all have fairly diverse pros and cons and introductions of new dynamics could be tricky for little to no benefit and possibly destroying the balance already established.

Quote:

    Missiles
    Pros
  • Low powergrid usage
  • No cap usage
  • Capable of dealing concentrated damage of any type
  • Own velocity has no bearing on damage projection(That's pretty cool)
  • Extremely flexible options for applying damage(IE Burst rapid missile launchers, short range damage(rockets, torps, hams), and very effective(debatable) long range volley damage)

    • Cons
  • High CPU usage
  • Damage is concentrated in a single type and more effected by stacked resistances
  • Long reload times
  • Delayed damage(missile travel time)
  • Range and damage applicability are not upgradeable via modules


    Projectiles
    Pros
  • Low fitting costs(autocannon)
  • No cap usage
  • Excellent selection of damage types
  • Ammo efficient(artillery)
  • Broad range options and tracking options
  • Upgrade options via modules
  • Best volley damage

    • Cons
  • High powergrid usage(artillery)
  • Long reload times
  • High ammo consumption(Autocannons)
  • Low optimal range(Autocannons)
  • Worst tracking(Artillery)


    Hybrids
    Pros
  • Short reload(5 seconds)
  • High dps
  • Best short ranged tracking(blasters)
  • low capacitor usage

    • Cons
  • High ammo consumption
  • High CPU usage
  • Worst range(blasters)
  • No damage type selection


    Lasers
    Pros
  • Extremely ammo efficient
  • Best ranged tracking(Beams)
  • Longest short range range(Pulse)
  • Instant reloads and ammunition switching

    • Cons
  • No damage selection
  • Worst short range tracking(Pulse)
  • Highest capacitor usage
  • Unreliable ammunition(T2 and faction)
  • High powergrid usage

Schrodinger's Hot Dropper

The Fate of Forum Alts

Guaranteed Success
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#17 - 2014-02-08 06:44:05 UTC
^ heh "longest short ranged range"
Though its definitely true.

I really don't see this extreme need for a change. I think its kinda funny that the OP claim that all laser boats need to carry a set of every type of ammo. Ships usually carry a close range ammo, a long range one, and standards or ultraviolet (for their cap bonuses and to middle out the range) along with whatever T2.

Also wth is with your numbers, I know prices have been rising of late (I've been out of game for a month due to work so I can't check prices) but if your paying 50mil to load out your apoc with ammo... you should find a better supply. But then again, its such a shame that you can shoot your guns for literally a week before having to buy more ammo (can't remember exactly, but it took more then 3 weeks of playing for 3-4 hours a day to spend a set of navy standard crystals on my abaddon, ratting for most of the time). Yeah theres slightly more cost when you lose your ship in a fight but meh, thats the cost of having long lasting ammo.

Also remember, if your flying matar and want to head out with a full load faction/t2 ammo of varied types, you can easily see yourself paying almost 15mil for that. And you're going to be a thorn in your FCs side if you end up out on ops for any notable length of time because especially AC ships might burn though their ammo supply (or at least their preferred damage for an engagement) before the fights over.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#18 - 2014-02-08 07:02:01 UTC
Ronny Hugo wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Are you seriously complaining about very short falloff on weapon system that is very capable to have optimal close to 100km?


The falloff is relative to optimal. The falloff of lets say L T2 Tachyon beams is 20km (w/o skill bonuses), the equivalent T2 1400mm artillery has 35km falloff (w/o skill bonuses).
Are you seriously mistaking Falloff for optimal?


Are you seriously shooting things with lazors outside of optimal?

OMG, stupid or troll or probably both.

Invalid signature format
Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-02-09 09:22:14 UTC
Batelle wrote:
yeah, and we should add advanced trajectory analysis too.

Roll


Also Advanced Advanced Weapon Upgrades. I'm sure everyone would love to train THAT one up to 5.

+1 but also only if bcaked up bi advanced collegiate skill empwowermence skil to multitply ALL SKILL effect but have x30 train time mult so its only an endgame skill
Sarah Nahrnid
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2014-02-09 11:28:58 UTC
Kaerakh wrote:
OP TL;DR: "I don't have enough experience with the game to know that every weapon has a downside and an upside and are actually fairly well balanced."

This is a very very generalized list of the pros and cons of each weapon system. As you can see they all have fairly diverse pros and cons and introductions of new dynamics could be tricky for little to no benefit and possibly destroying the balance already established.

Quote:

    Missiles
    Pros
  • Low powergrid usage
  • No cap usage
  • Capable of dealing concentrated damage of any type
  • Own velocity has no bearing on damage projection(That's pretty cool)
  • Extremely flexible options for applying damage(IE Burst rapid missile launchers, short range damage(rockets, torps, hams), and very effective(debatable) long range volley damage)

    • Cons
  • High CPU usage
  • Damage is concentrated in a single type and more effected by stacked resistances
  • Long reload times
  • Delayed damage(missile travel time)
  • Range and damage applicability are not upgradeable via modules


    Projectiles
    Pros
  • Low fitting costs(autocannon)
  • No cap usage
  • Excellent selection of damage types
  • Ammo efficient(artillery)
  • Broad range options and tracking options
  • Upgrade options via modules
  • Best volley damage

    • Cons
  • High powergrid usage(artillery)
  • Long reload times
  • High ammo consumption(Autocannons)
  • Low optimal range(Autocannons)
  • Worst tracking(Artillery)


    Hybrids
    Pros
  • Short reload(5 seconds)
  • High dps
  • Best short ranged tracking(blasters)
  • low capacitor usage

    • Cons
  • High ammo consumption
  • High CPU usage
  • Worst range(blasters)
  • No damage type selection


    Lasers
    Pros
  • Extremely ammo efficient
  • Best ranged tracking(Beams)
  • Longest short range range(Pulse)
  • Instant reloads and ammunition switching

    • Cons
  • No damage selection
  • Worst short range tracking(Pulse)
  • Highest capacitor usage
  • Unreliable ammunition(T2 and faction)
  • High powergrid usage



    Lasers
    Pros
  • Extremely ammo efficient
  • Best ranged tracking(Beams)
  • Longest short range range(Pulse)
  • Instant reloads and ammunition switching
  • Scorch


Fixed that for you
12Next page