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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#641 - 2014-02-07 01:47:28 UTC
GeneralDisturbed wrote:


TL;DR: we are now happy that drone assist is gone so we can have 8k player looking at black screens over 4k.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Civ Zomas
Deep Space Engineering INC
#642 - 2014-02-07 01:48:48 UTC
I support the 50 drone assist limit. It always seemed broken to me that this was allowed to scale without limit.

You're nerfing my VG fleets a bit, though. Can't you make it 60? Blink

Rek Seven wrote:
... The next best thing would be to completely design drones to function better in game and put less stress on the server. For example why have 5 drones that do 50 dps each instead of one that does 250 dps?!

This sounds like a simple idea for further reducing load. The issues around it are far from simple, though:

  • Upsizing all drones 5x would break drone bay and bandwidth balancing - especially on small ships - because not all hulls can host 5 drones. It would also nerf the balance of AoE weapons against drones.

  • Combining drones of the same type just like missiles from grouped launchers would simplify calculating their movement and attack - but drones also have to explode. Taking damage would force you to recalculate stats for the group to account for attrition. AoE damage would need to be handled differently from direct damage. Most vexingly, how would targeting a drone group work?

I can't see a good way to implement Rek Seven's proposal within existing game design. The end goal has some appeal, though.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#643 - 2014-02-07 01:53:28 UTC
heck why not just make it so carriers can only deploy 5 drones and 10 fighters and make DCU add fighters and not drones?

AFAIK fighters were originally designed to be the main weapon system for carriers not sentries.

drones on carriers should be utility purpose if you want dps use fighers.

now one can argue that fighters suck but that is a different subject.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Tara Tyrael
Quantum Anomaly Corporation
#644 - 2014-02-07 01:54:22 UTC
Like somebody proposed earlier, make cap depended on drone size

For example lets call the cap "secondary bandwidth"
Make it 100 on frigates, 200 on cruisers, 300 on bc, 400 on battleship, 500 on capital (t2 version of hull adds 50 for example)

Light drones use 5, medium 10, large 25, sentry 25

problem solved,
frigates can get either 20 lights or 4 sentry assisted or combinations from above..
battleships can get 80 lights or 16 sentry...

you have incursions covered there who mostly use warriors anyways
VG fleets field up to 12 pilots - that would be 60 drones - 300 out of 400 battleships secondary bandwidth
AS fleets would need 2 drone bunnies
HQ fleets would need 3 drone bunnies

I believe it's a nice compromise and adds scaling. I don't see why one frigate should have 50 light drones or 50 sentry drones, but I can see one battleship swarming 80 drones
Edmark I
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#645 - 2014-02-07 01:55:59 UTC
Peter Francisco wrote:
N3 has effectively countered domi fleets with turret ships


No you didnt, you got destroyed everytime.
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#646 - 2014-02-07 02:09:46 UTC
Screw drones. This is the best way. Death to all drones. If I still have a Dominix after this war, I'm going to self-destruct it.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#647 - 2014-02-07 02:17:09 UTC
GeneralDisturbed wrote:
Dear confused pubs in this thread: Stop suggesting bad ways to un-nerf your particular flavor of drones. EG: Can control/assign more of x drone, but not y. Or can use skills to increase amount of drones assigned/controlled.

CCP is getting rid of the massive pile of drones in every fight because they kill the server, and literally cut down the amount of people who can be in a fight by the -thousands-.

They've made it clear that they're going to continue to nerf them more, if drone boats don't stop being used enmasse with drone assignment. Fox news didn't write (steal) a badly made article and turn it into national news about eve, because you ran an incursion with a bunch of bots. Nullsec and their battles bring people to this game and make it headline news, so when something happens to balance nullsec that has a petty change to your botting of incursions, don't get super spergy on the forums. (Nobody cares).

TL;DR: Nobody cares about your botting in highsec, go back to the salt mines.


This.

Furthermore, incursiners, shut the **** up about the supposed "impactic" and trying to semantic nitpick rules-lawyer the OP into a contradiction. You have not been impacted, you've been mildly inconvenienced. Your actual ability to do incursions has not changed, especially given that your fleets are ridiculosly overequipped for the job.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Atuesuel
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#648 - 2014-02-07 02:31:20 UTC
Is this because CFC had a cry about N3 being better at fleet concepts?. why don't you fix some thing a little more important in the game. STATION GAMES
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#649 - 2014-02-07 02:33:50 UTC
Only the goons would nerf their most effective ship. Brilliant.

SlowCat wins this one again!

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Mariner6
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#650 - 2014-02-07 02:38:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mariner6
This change seems reasonable.

I do find it funny that no one ever complained about drone assist back when all drone boats sucked though, and just because it became a winning tactic with archons and domi's we now have to resort to this vice maybe addressing that more directly.

I hope CCP stops here as losing this functionality will continue a trending toward a growing sense of vanilla to this game that I suppose is the negative side of balancing.

I think that RR Vexor PvP groups are very fun and each player is still very busy flying the logi portion of their boat, even though their drones may be assigned. It would also be sad to see gangs like this become unmanageable should drone assist go away altogether or get further nerfed.

50 is fine, please hold there.

At the end of the day, no matter what the big alliances are going to choose some BS to be their doctrine. So no matter what is done one ship will end up being king for the uber blob. Don't penalize the rest of us for that please.
Krimishkev
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#651 - 2014-02-07 02:42:23 UTC
People are just mad cause they die to wrecking ball fleets half the size of their own. Sorry but if you're gonna remove drone assist than you need to remove blobbing too. Toad.
Imouto Tan
Doomheim
#652 - 2014-02-07 02:43:48 UTC
Kaphrah wrote:
[quote=James Amril-Kesh][quote=Swiftstrike1]

Yeah CCP is right, totally passive gameplay if DPS shoots Battleships and stuff while Dronebunny kills frigates. Everybody should lock up frigates on his own and then send Drones on them as it would be way too easy to kill the Frigates with 1400's and Tachyons cause the players are so passive and there are no other Targets on grid anyway. [/SARCASM]

Sorry but the change with a flat Number at 50 and the argument not to impact Incursion fleets in the same Post is kinda senseless. Change it like stated above, make a difference between light drones, sentries and other stuff like heavies.


Or, you know, use 2-4 drone bunnies if you need 100-200 drones.

The argument is that you're using light drones anyway; clearly alpha is not an issue so even individual locking is hardly the worse option, let alone having so few additional bunnies.

It is simply absurd to say that you shouldn't be expected to have a couple more guys lock up extra targets occasionally.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#653 - 2014-02-07 02:45:31 UTC
CCP Rise,

Since you've taken a break from destroying RLMLs to come and drop trou in the slowcat sandbox, you should make large scale drone assist even more difficult and unwieldy by creating a new active high slot module, the 'Drone Bandwidth Repeater' that is necessary for each ship that wishes to assist its drones out. One repeater per 5 drones assisted would be cool.

If you wanted to double the fun, it could be fueled with drone poop and require a 40s reload after each cycle.
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#654 - 2014-02-07 02:49:40 UTC
Good news.

The bad news is that we are back to pressing F1.

Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#655 - 2014-02-07 02:49:43 UTC
Krimishkev wrote:
People are just mad cause they die to wrecking ball fleets half the size of their own. Sorry but if you're gonna remove drone assist than you need to remove blobbing too. Toad.


maybe you should keep up with the times and realize that we disemboweled your wrecking ball fleet and are now taking regions uncontested

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#656 - 2014-02-07 02:56:43 UTC
I must say that I'm rather enjoying the tears caused by this change even though I'm not part of any large nullsec powerbloc.
So you need the have a few more people in your slowcat fleet actually pointing targets. If I had my way, you would all have to do it.

Gunboat and missile fleets require work on the part of every fighting ship to take down enemies, not just having 100 people who happen to be there while 1 person basically fires all the guns.

So you'll need to fragment control your fleets a bit more. Heck you might see quicker response times in redirecting fire as needed. All the people whining about how it'll become a cluster**** to manage drone fleets, yall need to HTFU.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#657 - 2014-02-07 03:20:11 UTC
Atuesuel wrote:
STATION GAMES


thats easy make all station in low sec and 0.0 "kick out"

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#658 - 2014-02-07 03:21:12 UTC
Andski wrote:
Krimishkev wrote:
People are just mad cause they die to wrecking ball fleets half the size of their own. Sorry but if you're gonna remove drone assist than you need to remove blobbing too. Toad.


maybe you should keep up with the times and realize that we disemboweled your wrecking ball fleet and are now taking regions uncontested


it was kinda a all or nothing fleet concept type of thing

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#659 - 2014-02-07 03:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
i am starting to lean towards the scale for drone assist

make make assist based on max mb since 1 sentry is 25mb so 25 X 50 = 1250mb

so thats 50 heavy/sentry 10 bs/5 carrier

125 medium 25 ships

250 light 50 ships

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There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Kaphrah
Thats my BOI
#660 - 2014-02-07 03:46:57 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
i am starting to lean towards the scale for drone assist

make make assist based on max mb since 1 sentry is 25mb so 25 X 50 = 1250mb

so thats 50 heavy/sentry

125 medium

250 light

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


^ This.