These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

Public Consultation: Caldari State Security
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Saya Ishikari
Ishukone-Raata Technological Research Institute
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#41 - 2014-02-06 23:55:00 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Lyka Gridherst wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Did a Matari just accuse me of having an inferiority complex? That is hilarious.

Seriously. Paging an Amarrian to accuse me of having no sense of humour and a Gallente to accuse me of having no restraint.

I've not met many Caldari; are they all as racist as you?
Before anyone replies: yes, irony.


What's so hilarious? Are you claiming that we Matari suffer from some sort of collective neurosis? I sure haven't seen anything of the sort but hey, what do I know? I've only been Minmatar my whole life. Roll

Also, I'd say more xenophobic than outright racist. The Caldari seem to be willing to accept foreigners to some extent so long as said foreigners respect the State's laws and traditions. However, I'm not sure that even those foreigners who fully embrace the principles of Heiian and emigrate to the State are ever fully accepted. On some level I think they'd always be seen as outsiders since they weren't born and raised in the State and immersed in Caldari culture from birth.

It entirely depends on individual attitudes, Miss Rella. While there are always racists in any group, on the whole, Caldari accept others in kind on their own merits. Being Caldari isn't genetics, it's a way of life, and those who embrace that way of life are usually afforded the same respect as an ethnic Civire or Deteis. Achura is a prime example of how a very different culture can nevertheless become a part of the State, keeping their own identity, but being accepted on their contributions. Personally, I have naught but respect for those who choose to be Caldari, no matter their ethnic origins, especially since they often have a somewhat more difficult time than those of us raised to live as we do, adapting to our way of life.

"At the end of it all, we have only what we've left in our wake to be remembered by." -Kyoko Ishikari, YC 95 - YC 117
Jace Sarice
#42 - 2014-02-07 00:26:21 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
[...]The Caldari seem to be willing to accept foreigners to some extent so long as said foreigners respect the State's laws and traditions. [...]


I would consider this to be fairly accurate. Is there any manner in which this is unreasonable?
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#43 - 2014-02-07 00:49:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Presumably what she said next is where her problem is:

Anabella Rella wrote:
However, I'm not sure that even those foreigners who fully embrace the principles of Heiian and emigrate to the State are ever fully accepted. On some level I think they'd always be seen as outsiders since they weren't born and raised in the State and immersed in Caldari culture from birth.


Even ethnic Caldari born and raised in the State must constantly prove their dedication and loyalty not just to peers, but to their superiors and subordinates as well. Caldari, no matter their origin, are expected to fit in. Consequences of failure to do so are both swift and brutal.

Yes, as an outsider they will be constantly scrutinized. It is more difficult for them to survive the unceasing demand for absolute loyalty, because they are not just unused to it but also more noticeable by default. Outsiders suffer severe handicaps that cause difficulty with acclimating to State culture. The first is the obvious, that they are clearly not Caldari or Achura. The second is more subtle, but equally important - they are ignorant of our ways and often exhibit obvious personal differences. Speech accents, foreign habits, different emotional responses and triggers, and other nuances of the sort.

We are not xenophobic. We are simply intolerant of outsiders. Ishukone is a notable exception, gifted (or perhaps cursed) with an extraneous tolerance for it. Even I find it difficult to adopt and stick to Ishukone's way of thinking, sometimes.

Katrina Oniseki
Jace Sarice
#44 - 2014-02-07 06:00:43 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Presumably what she said next is where her problem is:

Anabella Rella wrote:
However, I'm not sure that even those foreigners who fully embrace the principles of Heiian and emigrate to the State are ever fully accepted. On some level I think they'd always be seen as outsiders since they weren't born and raised in the State and immersed in Caldari culture from birth.


Even ethnic Caldari born and raised in the State must constantly prove their dedication and loyalty not just to peers, but to their superiors and subordinates as well. Caldari, no matter their origin, are expected to fit in. Consequences of failure to do so are both swift and brutal.

Yes, as an outsider they will be constantly scrutinized. It is more difficult for them to survive the unceasing demand for absolute loyalty, because they are not just unused to it but also more noticeable by default. Outsiders suffer severe handicaps that cause difficulty with acclimating to State culture. The first is the obvious, that they are clearly not Caldari or Achura. The second is more subtle, but equally important - they are ignorant of our ways and often exhibit obvious personal differences. Speech accents, foreign habits, different emotional responses and triggers, and other nuances of the sort.

We are not xenophobic. We are simply intolerant of outsiders. Ishukone is a notable exception, gifted (or perhaps cursed) with an extraneous tolerance for it. Even I find it difficult to adopt and stick to Ishukone's way of thinking, sometimes.


What you describe easily falls under the mention of tradition in the earlier quote. Those that do not realize this make it apparent as to why there is readily occurring friction.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#45 - 2014-02-07 06:02:39 UTC
A fair enough observation.

Katrina Oniseki
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#46 - 2014-02-08 02:35:02 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Even ethnic Caldari born and raised in the State must constantly prove their dedication and loyalty not just to peers, but to their superiors and subordinates as well. Caldari, no matter their origin, are expected to fit in. Consequences of failure to do so are both swift and brutal.


Now, before some object to an Amarrian expressing an opinion about the Caldari, allow me to say that I am an Amarrian and you should just expect these things. Furthermore, I've pretty much only flown a Drake since forever ago and my Other Rabbit is a Caldari, and my Caldari Graduate Assistant is a Caldari, and Schere is a Caldari. I adore the Caldari.

And you know, if Blood Ruby's plot had succeeded, and I had contributed to it, I would have felt, you know, badly.

But... speaking of Blood Rubies... I must observe, and please take this only in the most positive way possible - and further bear in mind that it is, actually, you know, a compliment...

...what you say there evokes a tone reminiscent of what certain heretical sects of the Amarrian faith say.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#47 - 2014-02-08 10:31:17 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:

We are not xenophobic. We are simply intolerant of outsiders.


Huh ?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#48 - 2014-02-08 12:11:13 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:

As anyone not making a deliberate attempt to avoid current affairs will know, Tibus Heth and the Caldari Providence Directorate (CPD) were recently ousted from their position within the Caldari State, a move that is perceived, rightly or wrongly, as something of a return to "business as usual".

I would like to note, that it wasn't "business as usual", it was a high treason and coup d'etat.
This is the most shameful stain on our reputation, and we all have to bear its consequences, and let those, who staged it, will meet a thousand of deaths, their names will be forgotten, while the name of true hero of the State, Tibus Heth, will always stay in hearts of loyal Caldari Citizens for millions of years to come.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#49 - 2014-02-08 23:45:00 UTC
I would just like to extend my personal thanks for all respondents. Your answers, even those which did not directly answer, were an invaluable insight into the questions and opinion among the Caldari capsuleer community.

My best wishes to you all.

**Vherokior **
Previous page123