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Why freighter bumping in High Sec is an exploit

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Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2014-02-06 08:35:15 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Not gonna read 3 pages since I gatther its the usual case of htfu..if not asked yet already, who did you **** off to where they think a night of bumping your frieighter is a worthwhile use of time? and what did you do to get them that motivated to do this?


they born that way they are aholes:D
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#62 - 2014-02-06 09:46:48 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Invest in a couple of smartbombing battleships or gank the bumper.


Yep, cos that's not going to get those BS CONCORDed and Kill Rights now is it not to mention that it's an AoE weapon and could include innocents...

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#63 - 2014-02-06 10:28:55 UTC
JetStream Drenard wrote:
I just don't get bumping as a mechanic to begin with, you ram people at full speed to knock them about. Nevermind the OP for a sec. What are we flying bumper cars? If you "bump" me with your car at full speed, you are going to to some physical damage to both of us (and you better have good insurance). So back to the OP, and all other bumping related activities, it is just a stupid and highly exploitable (by all, I do it too) game mechanic that makes absolutely no friggin sense to even have. But then you start down that road to Newtonian physics, and bullets that pass through objects to strike their target, and then it just devolves into CCP 'not gonna change.' So bring your suicide dessie along for the ride and blow up the bumper so you can align. (btw another pain in the rear, multi-boxing and those discussions too, bleah)

And why exactly dont freighters have any slots to fit mods? another pointed question



If you want any kind of realistic damage mechanics, then you want us to be able to destroy freighters using one T1 cruiser. A stabber with plates and an MWD has a silly amount of kinetic energy behind it, slam one of those into a freighter and bad things will happen.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#64 - 2014-02-06 10:43:52 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Invest in a couple of smartbombing battleships or gank the bumper.


Yep, cos that's not going to get those BS CONCORDed and Kill Rights now is it not to mention that it's an AoE weapon and could include innocents...

Then use something else. It's not my problem, you figure it out.

Oh god.
Lilla Kharn
161st SOAR A
Divine Damnation
#65 - 2014-02-06 10:44:12 UTC
Quote:
However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment


I'm just going to leave this here, courtesy of GM Karidor.

Freighters are inherently trying to leave the area no?

Twisted
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#66 - 2014-02-06 10:48:16 UTC
Lilla Kharn wrote:
Quote:
However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment


I'm just going to leave this here, courtesy of GM Karidor.

Freighters are inherently trying to leave the area no?

Twisted

No, it means if the freighter has moved to another region to avoid being bumped and you follow them and keep bumping them with no intention of ganking them.

Oh god.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#67 - 2014-02-06 11:31:30 UTC
Lilla Kharn wrote:
Quote:
However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment


I'm just going to leave this here, courtesy of GM Karidor.

Freighters are inherently trying to leave the area no?

Twisted
But they haven't, so therefore the bumpers have not broken that rule. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Nag'o
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2014-02-06 13:34:28 UTC
Thumb fighting online.

Brain hackz0r. Execute schizophrenia virus. Hyper-phishing activated. Downloading reality.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#69 - 2014-02-06 17:23:50 UTC
I could give you a long list of things that would make you pretty much 99 % safe from all ganks, ever.
But why should I?

Go figure out yourself you lazy piece of **** instead of demanding CCP to save your ass.

WoW is that way --->
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#70 - 2014-02-06 17:52:12 UTC
Assuming that the consensus is that bumping in general is a bad mechanic and makes little logical sense, one solution to the problem would be to force ships to divert their path when heading directly into another ship. So for instance if a frigate was heading full speed towards a freighter, the autopilot would assume there is something wrong with the pilot and automatically change course temporarily to avoid the freighter. The would take some pretty clever coding by CCP and is the best solution to resolve the issue of bumping.

The other alternative would be to allow ships to collide causing damage to one another which would be easily exploitable.

The last solution would be to suppose that each ship is surrounded by a magnetic field (shield) and when these two fields collide they repel each other based upon the mass of each ship. For instance if a frigate charges into a freighter, then the frigate should bounce off and leave the freighter virtually untouched. Due to a Freighters mass, no other ship beside a Capital or another freighter (which cannot travel at high enough speeds to bump) would be able to significantly disrupt a freighters direction of travel.

Any of these solutions would be better than the current mechanics in my opinion.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#71 - 2014-02-06 18:17:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Really??

hi-sec is not safe. protect urself at all times. if u cannot be bothered to defend urself with the methods mentioned, plus the near infinite more ways u can if u just bothered to think outside the box, then u deserve to lose ur stuff. and the longer u take to realise that, the more stuff u will lose.

if u dnt like the idea of putting in effort to defend ur stuff, then what in gods name are u playing eve for?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2014-02-06 18:26:56 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
mass wise frigates and smaller ships should just "fly on the windowscreen" on capital size ships and since freighters are capital size they should be bump immune to anything but other caps and perhaps battleships which would hold the nessesary mass x speed to make some form of differance



frigates are stil heavier than a 747 jet. Throw a 747 jet in an aricraft carrier and they will not squat at the windshield.


"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
BobFromMarketing
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2014-02-06 19:06:45 UTC
Claud Tiberius wrote:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Highsec



Didn't even bother to read your link did you? Allow me to help you out here

Quote:
These systems are policed by CONCORD which awards some safety from pirates. While CONCORD does not prevent acts of piracy in high security space, they will quickly respond to such acts and punish the perpetrator


Bolded the funny part for you. CONCORD is there to exact punishment, not guard you. You simply use it as a guard because you're lazy and complacent.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2014-02-06 19:42:08 UTC
BobFromMarketing wrote:
Claud Tiberius wrote:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Highsec



Didn't even bother to read your link did you? Allow me to help you out here

Quote:
These systems are policed by CONCORD which awards some safety from pirates. While CONCORD does not prevent acts of piracy in high security space, they will quickly respond to such acts and punish the perpetrator


Bolded the funny part for you. CONCORD is there to exact punishment, not guard you. You simply use it as a guard because you're lazy and complacent.



Its exactly how works in real life. Police cannot prevent you from being hit by a guy with a baseball bat in the street. But the fact
that the guy will be arrested if he does so is what makes unlikely that he will do it.

Why works better in real life? Because the punishment is MUCH more severe and is not forgotten 15 minutes later.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Mazzara
Band of the Red Sun
#75 - 2014-02-06 20:46:58 UTC
Gankers are so funny, they use any means necessary to justify them using what is pretty clearly an exploit, but the second someone makes a post about how to fix it suddenly the poster is breaking the game.

if a ganker wants to keep someone from flying away they should have to use the modules that everyone else has to and risk getting concorded like everyone else.
No matter how much you scrub, how hot of water you use, you can't wash shame!
Cassie Helio
Push Industries
Push Interstellar Network
#76 - 2014-02-06 20:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassie Helio
Kagura Nikon wrote:


Its exactly how works in real life. Police cannot prevent you from being hit by a guy with a baseball bat in the street. But the fact
that the guy will be arrested if he does so is what makes unlikely that he will do it.

Why works better in real life? Because the punishment is MUCH more severe and is not forgotten 15 minutes later.


It's funny you said this because I was thinking about it earlier. Actually in real life if you were shoving someone around but not actually causing them harm, you would be suspicious. Police would not be able to stop anyone from hitting you with a baseball bat (the gank squad) but if someone was shoving you around for 30 minutes first (the bumper) police would pay attention to that.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#77 - 2014-02-06 21:34:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Mazzara wrote:
Gankers are so funny, they use any means necessary to justify them using what is pretty clearly an exploit, but the second someone makes a post about how to fix it suddenly the poster is breaking the game.

if a ganker wants to keep someone from flying away they should have to use the modules that everyone else has to and risk getting concorded like everyone else.


cause sitting on the jita undock and having ppl go suspect for bumping into u wouldnt break the game at all. use ur common sense man ffs. it took less than 5 seconds to think of the problem with the idea the FIRST time it was brought up months ago when goons started using this bumping tactic. If other freighter pilots, like myself, can adapt so can u. Adapt or GTFO.

Bumping is part of the game. used for tackling, area denial, getting ppl off of station or out the POS shield, breaking logi chains and any number of advantages u can gain by affecting ur opponents trajectory. Why is it so important that u must have the right to be lazy, complacent and foolish with ur assets that all these other legitimate styles of play must suffer? i ask this especially when there are methods and tactics that can be, and are, employed to avoid the problem already.

Cassie Helio wrote:
It's funny you said this because I was thinking about it earlier. Actually in real life if you were shoving someone around but not actually causing them harm, you would be suspicious. Police would not be able to stop anyone from hitting you with a baseball bat (the gank squad) but if someone was shoving you around for 30 minutes first (the bumper) police would pay attention to that.


real life and eve dont go hand in hand. Eve is what it is, but its closer to the wild west or mad max than RL today. get over it.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#78 - 2014-02-06 22:28:25 UTC
issue with bumping is that it doesn't require you to even be worth ganking, they could just be ransoming your empty anshar.

The only solution is to log off, at which point they can suicide an ibis and keep you around indefinitely.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Cassie Helio
Push Industries
Push Interstellar Network
#79 - 2014-02-06 22:46:48 UTC
Batelle wrote:
issue with bumping is that it doesn't require you to even be worth ganking, they could just be ransoming your empty anshar.

The only solution is to log off, at which point they can suicide an ibis and keep you around indefinitely.


They don't even need an Ibis. Logging off doesn't work when you're being bumped because your ship can't align to ewarp.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#80 - 2014-02-06 23:15:17 UTC
Cassie Helio wrote:
Batelle wrote:
issue with bumping is that it doesn't require you to even be worth ganking, they could just be ransoming your empty anshar.

The only solution is to log off, at which point they can suicide an ibis and keep you around indefinitely.


They don't even need an Ibis. Logging off doesn't work when you're being bumped because your ship can't align to ewarp.


ewarping is not necessary to disappear from space.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.