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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#381 - 2014-02-06 18:09:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Akrasjel Lanate
Squad commanders will have a new job LolRoll

Goons get what do they want Online, even if it won't change much

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Ivana Twinkle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#382 - 2014-02-06 18:09:47 UTC
Rosie O'Sullivan wrote:
This is sooo crazy. Like I never saw anyone use drone assist, not even once. Now ccp comes along and bans it just because some scammers complain? this is like the worst decision ccp ever made. I guess the goons must buy a lot of plex so ccp is kinda held hostage.


Your comment indicate you never left High or Low sec, because the sentry assist doesn't work there due to ~crimewatch~
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#383 - 2014-02-06 18:10:16 UTC
Wolf Kraft wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Wolf Kraft wrote:
What's to prevent the designated drone bunny from just using ISBoxer instead now?

I'm perfectly fine with this, considering how much effort it would take, in a fleet of say 200 drone-using subcaps, to assign drones to one of 20 drone triggers. Not to mention the fact that this poor bastard would have to be running 20 clients in combat.
It's incredibly impractical.


That's the thing, ISBoxer would replicate inputs across all 20 clients. The person in charge of those clients is still doing the same amount of work as they did before.

His computer sure as hell isn't.

Wolf Kraft wrote:
With the added benefit of having redundancy now, because if you lose a drone trigger only a handful of people need to reassign. Just have the person assigning the drone put their drone trigger in their watch list and they know roughly when to assign drones to another trigger.

How do we know how to assign to? Do we just keep trying to assign down the list until we get someone who doesn't already have 50 drones on them? I mean be realistic.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#384 - 2014-02-06 18:10:35 UTC
BoomBoss wrote:
Venetian Tar wrote:
BoomBoss wrote:
So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?

It just so happens that whatever the CFC wants, or whatever the biggest coalition is at that time, you give them. History (bpo's) repeating itself again?


We won the war and even abused the **** out of it ourselves before these changes were announced, but keep crying about it.


You haven't won the war, it isn't over yet. There was just a loss of a lot of shiny boats and we lose a region. Big f*cking deal!

Dude...PL ain't coming to save you.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#385 - 2014-02-06 18:13:05 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ccp caves to goons, goons can't win without ccp's interv- oh wait, we kind of did.


A very convenient sov-drop due to a "glitch" says you didn't

Still clinging to that story I see.
Curious that this glitch has never happened before in thousands of sov null systems in the years that this system has been in place - it always came down to a mistake on the part of whoever was supposed to pay the bills.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Walker Ahashion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#386 - 2014-02-06 18:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Walker Ahashion
Malcanis wrote:
BoomBoss wrote:
So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?

It just so happens that whatever the CFC wants, or whatever the biggest coalition is at that time, you give them. History (bpo's) repeating itself again?


So what you're saying is that if you can't get someone else to decide when and who to shoot at on your behalf, you're not able to fight players as bad as goons are?


Your blue with goons right? Sort Dragon is also blue with goons too right?
And your all for the drone changes? Aye, ok then mate, sure it was due to thousands of players complaining that the game was too passive.

CCP- Get these chumps of your CSM, they take us all for fools.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#387 - 2014-02-06 18:15:24 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Looks like carriers have been relegated to having no place in sov war besides repping.

Maybe, and as a newly minted carrier pilot I can't say I mind this terribly.
Drone assist needed to be nerfed.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kappy Ukap
K For Kill
#388 - 2014-02-06 18:15:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kappy Ukap
Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
  • We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy. Assist places too much control in the hands of a single person and leaves the majority of the fleet with little to do.
    • Have you had players complain about assigning drones? Are you aware nearly everyone's number one complaint in large fleet fights is tidi?

    Players assist because tidi makes this game unplayable in large fleet/capital confrontations.

    Assisting drones so someone can watch a movie or play DotA is actually how Eve Online is played at the Capital/mass tidi level.

    That entire statement is a ridiculous justification for the change. You don't need to justify it. Just do it. It doesn't matter because the better groups using Sentries NEVER use a single trigger anyway.

    So now instead of 1 guy being the assist and 9 guys doing something else, 1 guy will be the assist and 4 guys will be doing something else.

    Fix tidi and you fix a lot of problems. This change is just lipstick on a pig.


    If you read the statistics on the HED battle, Drone assist doctrines caused x5 more server load than a normal doctrine would in a battle of that size. Because the server has to process 5 or 10 drones PER sentry ship using assist.

    And you'd require an extremely powerful server to process ALL of EVE itself as well as the +4000 battles. The drone assist fix will reducing lag and reducing terrible AFK doctrines. EVE is meant to be played, not left.

    And it isn't possible to put EVE on a more powerful server, EVE is running the most powerful servers it can.
    yogizh
    GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
    Goonswarm Federation
    #389 - 2014-02-06 18:15:53 UTC
    CCP please delete all CFC accounts, because N3 and buddies is whining.
    Whatever you do, they will complain and then claim how bad CFC is. Make nullified drone boats with jump drive that launch swarms of uncatchable interceptors, because running from fights is what EVE Online is meant to be. Players should anchor up and play cookie whatever is it.

    Really guys ? This is what you are all about ? This is a change that only CFC will profit from ?
    I apologize for playing this game with faction that you dislike, but your logic escapes me. Your arguments are childish.
    Victor Dathar
    Lowlife.
    Snuffed Out
    #390 - 2014-02-06 18:17:07 UTC
    God damn Goons! Ruining parts of the game I don't have anything to do with since I mine veld in Empire!

    ^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7

    @grr_goons : Wisdom, Insight, GBS Posts
    MeBiatch
    GRR GOONS
    #391 - 2014-02-06 18:17:16 UTC
    Anhenka wrote:
    Looks like carriers have been relegated to having no place in sov war besides repping.

    With one section of eve having such overwhelming subcap superiority, you have managed to create the greatest push towards NAP and NIPing everyone in sight (including your previous enemies), what with one side being massively more powerful but content to sit upon their hoard and sleep, and the other side unable to contest the mass of warm bodies in subcaps that the other side can throw around.

    All celebrate the Hegemony of the North, next Deklein sov change inc 2027.


    It's all and well to make changes to mechanics based on how you feel they are negatively impacting the game, but this mechanic was one of the main mechanics preventing the state of nullsec from devolving to everyone turtling up. A will still wipe the floor with B, B will do the same to the C, and everyone will sit on their throne of renters and grow fat.

    And nullsec complacency and boredom are imo, far more dangerous in the long term to eve than a passive gameplay mechanic.


    do not worry the sov changes greyscale proposed in 2011 will fix blobing once and for all!

    oh wait.

    There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

    Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
    Elise Randolph
    Habitual Euthanasia
    Pandemic Legion
    #392 - 2014-02-06 18:18:13 UTC
    It's not a bad change, but I don't think it addresses any of the /actual/ problems. Carrier blobs will still be incredibly efficient at defending objectives - which is where they are used now. Killing things will certainly be slower, there is no doubt about that, but does it matter if you're not dying and I can still kill you anywhere on grid?

    Domis are very strong /not/ because they can focus fire every 4 seconds, but because they have cruiser -level tracking combined with BS-level damage and sniper-level range. Sentry carriers existed long before the Domi got a boost, and almost nobody (save for blackhorizon) even considered using drone assign subcaps because they weren't that great. The only thing that changed between then and now is that Domis got a massive boost to sentry tracking and range.

    If you truly want to nerf drone usage, then look at what makes them overpowered. Omnidirectionals are going to become scripted, but that doesn't solve the problem either. What about having Omnidirectionals, Drone Damage Amps, and Drone Links STACK with one another so you can't get absurd tracking, damage, AND range simultaneously? Make a mechanic so that someone with 50+ drones assigned to him has a visible effect. Heck, give a signature penalty if someone is controlling 50+ drones. Alternatively have the drone-assign guy inherit the lowest lock range. There are dozens of creative ways where you can solve the problem, instead of trying to band-aid one of the perceived abuses.

    The balance team has consistently been knocking out home runs on everything it touches, so this completely underwhelming and uninspired change comes as a total surprise. So I implore you - look at what is wrong and fix that instead of trying to patch one use. Drones will keep making fires until you do.

    ~
    MeBiatch
    GRR GOONS
    #393 - 2014-02-06 18:18:30 UTC
    Victor Dathar wrote:
    God damn Goons! Ruining parts of the game I don't have anything to do with since I mine veld in Empire!

    goon logic...

    am i currently at war with this corp/alliance?

    answer yes: flame about he does not have enough friends

    answer no: flame how he apparently lives in high sec and mines veld.

    There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

    Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
    Aloe Cloveris
    The Greater Goon
    #394 - 2014-02-06 18:19:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Aloe Cloveris
    Carriers (especially Archons) were worthless before DDAs and Omnis. You literally could not give a carrier away until those modules were introduced. There was zero benefit to fielding one then and there is zero benefit to fielding one now with these hare-brained changes.

    Is it even possible fit other modules on this piece-of-****?

    Good job, CCP. ******* bozos.

    e: also I am accepting surplus Archons for a protest or something idk
    Dramaticus
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #395 - 2014-02-06 18:19:24 UTC
    BoomBoss wrote:
    Venetian Tar wrote:
    BoomBoss wrote:
    So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?

    It just so happens that whatever the CFC wants, or whatever the biggest coalition is at that time, you give them. History (bpo's) repeating itself again?


    We won the war and even abused the **** out of it ourselves before these changes were announced, but keep crying about it.


    You haven't won the war, it isn't over yet. There was just a loss of a lot of shiny boats and we lose a region. Big f*cking deal!


    THIS CRUISE ISN'T OVER!!!

    - Edward Smith, April 15th 1912

    The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

    The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them
    BoomBoss
    KarmaFleet
    Goonswarm Federation
    #396 - 2014-02-06 18:19:44 UTC
    Darius JOHNSON wrote:
    1Of9 wrote:
    Malcanis wrote:
    BoomBoss wrote:
    So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?

    It just so happens that whatever the CFC wants, or whatever the biggest coalition is at that time, you give them. History (bpo's) repeating itself again?


    So what you're saying is that if you can't get someone else to decide when and who to shoot at on your behalf, you're not able to fight players as bad as goons are?


    dont think that's what he said. I beleive what he said was that goons have vastly superior numbers, and slowcats was the only platform that could allow a smaller entity to face them. Even slowcats where endangered species because goons where already adapting to them (damps, ecm, neuts, dreads, etc).

    Put a 250 rail rokh fleet with 5 triage carriers facing 4 goon fleets. Let me know who murdered who.


    Ok so the counter to not having any friends was not having to actually control your stuff in the game and in an MMO requiring social interaction that's viewed as a bad thing. I hope this explanation has pounded its way into your skull.



    There was more then enough social interraction on mumble, or that does not count? It HAS to be ingame? This game is not just about the game you know. The interration was there, and it is always epic.
    Llyona
    Lazerhawks
    L A Z E R H A W K S
    #397 - 2014-02-06 18:19:45 UTC
    Kappy Ukap wrote:

    Server side:
    Anyhow tbh making the server more powerful would be an option but can CCP do that with how much it could cost?


    It's not a matter of cost, but possibility. CCP is already using the best servers money can buy. The "next gen" server platforms just haven't come out yet.

    EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.
    Kappy Ukap
    K For Kill
    #398 - 2014-02-06 18:22:13 UTC
    Llyona wrote:
    Kappy Ukap wrote:

    Server side:
    Anyhow tbh making the server more powerful would be an option but can CCP do that with how much it could cost?


    It's not a matter of cost, but possibility. CCP is already using the best servers money can buy. The "next gen" server platforms just haven't come out yet.


    Then why not tell the people who are complaining about the Server being weak to build their own server. Blink
    Zomgnomnom
    Contra Ratio
    GameTheory
    #399 - 2014-02-06 18:23:05 UTC
    Elise Randolph wrote:
    It's not a bad change, but I don't think it addresses any of the /actual/ problems. Carrier blobs will still be incredibly efficient at defending objectives - which is where they are used now. Killing things will certainly be slower, there is no doubt about that, but does it matter if you're not dying and I can still kill you anywhere on grid?

    Domis are very strong /not/ because they can focus fire every 4 seconds, but because they have cruiser -level tracking combined with BS-level damage and sniper-level range. Sentry carriers existed long before the Domi got a boost, and almost nobody (save for blackhorizon) even considered using drone assign subcaps because they weren't that great. The only thing that changed between then and now is that Domis got a massive boost to sentry tracking and range.

    If you truly want to nerf drone usage, then look at what makes them overpowered. Omnidirectionals are going to become scripted, but that doesn't solve the problem either. What about having Omnidirectionals, Drone Damage Amps, and Drone Links STACK with one another so you can't get absurd tracking, damage, AND range simultaneously? Make a mechanic so that someone with 50+ drones assigned to him has a visible effect. Heck, give a signature penalty if someone is controlling 50+ drones. Alternatively have the drone-assign guy inherit the lowest lock range. There are dozens of creative ways where you can solve the problem, instead of trying to band-aid one of the perceived abuses.

    The balance team has consistently been knocking out home runs on everything it touches, so this completely underwhelming and uninspired change comes as a total surprise. So I implore you - look at what is wrong and fix that instead of trying to patch one use. Drones will keep making fires until you do.



    Careful there Elise, you're dangerously close to making sense here. The goonies won't like that one bit. It pokes holes in Mittens narrative.
    X Gallentius
    Black Eagle1
    #400 - 2014-02-06 18:23:09 UTC
    Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    Why 50? That still seems too much.
    I can only control 5 drones from my ship natively, but for some reason I can use 50 from others?

    One squad of 10 ships = 50 drones.