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Who actually hates the concept of Incarna?

Author
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#21 - 2011-11-26 11:28:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathan Jameson
The original concept was to increase immersion, by allowing the player to put an avatar of himself directly into the game.

Incarna didn't. In fact, it literally did nothing at all. As such, there was no reason to find the expansion as anything but a waste of developer and customer time.

Here's hoping they eventually develop it into the Babylon-5-esque environment they were originally shooting for.

http://www.wormholes.info

Etheoma
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2011-11-26 11:48:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Etheoma
Kymara wrote:
I do.

It's a epic spaceschip simulation game, not another ******* fairy-hopping-through-the-grass siumulation game.
If you want to dress up, go to any of the other MMO's out there.


But, $ being king, there's no turning back. 95% of the market wants to play dress-up-doll, then that's what the market gets.


I think your oversimplifying things a little, people like to play speak etc face to face and when that's not possible a virtual representation is more personal than a name, a picture and a ship Incarna hasnt yet delivered on this because its basically still in development, people keep saying oh incarna is useless... ITS IN THE GAME FOR TESTING PROPOSES, now you could argue that they should keep it on the test server but then you wouldn't get as many people testing to see if it actually works on most computers.

Personally I'm happy with the way things are now but I couldn't argue that having avatar's that can walk around etc opens up the market, also with walking in stations it enables you to add more stuff into the game stuff that would be un-immersive if you did it in space.
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#23 - 2011-11-26 12:28:47 UTC
The concept was amazing... It still is amazing.

The problem is that somewhere between the idea and the final product delivered there was a huge mistake made by a developer who decided to make virtual clothing more expensive than real clothing. Not to mention the plan of releasing the product not only half-done, but practically not done at all. I remember seing a clip of walking in a station, walking into a bar and actually playing a game with someone? A minigame? Not only I can't see that happening now, but any time soon...

CCP did the exact same thing BF3 developers did... They released a product with a load of bugs, mistakes and totally wrong ideas without actually listening to the feedback of players (beta players in bf3 case). The thing is, that in bf3 the fix is coming at the beginning of December this year (a week, maybe two at worst). In CCPs case we've waited half a year to get still only a tiny portion of the promissed content and with no estimated date of getting the full product.

People like dates, but only those dates that are more or less kept. People don't like being hung in empty space. Especially with no possibility of using a warp drive.

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#24 - 2011-11-26 12:32:54 UTC
I've got no issues with the concept, might very be fun one day.

But I had a lot of issues of it being forced upon us in such a pre-alpha state.

And actually, I've got no issues with NeX, I just don't use it.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-11-26 12:44:10 UTC
I have no problem with Incarna, or NeX, or any of it. I just don't want to leave my pod. I don't care if others do, I just don't want to. It wasn't much to ask and I'm glad that they finally delivered on such a simple request.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!

Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-11-26 13:00:12 UTC
Thing is, the concept for Incarna wasn't the concept just for Incarna, it was Eve's general concept. A complete Sci-fi universe, and one I was and still am behind.

The execution was terrible though. 1 CQ, Forced CQ, no actual flying content, the terrible new non-icons for turrets, poor performance....etc..

However, the biggest thing about the Incarna expansion for me was the lies from CCP.

A number of high up devs (one might have been Soundwave) promised that CQ would not only be completely optional, but wouldn't be implemented if it reduced functionality or TimeToKill.

Going from ~5 seconds to load up the hanger to nearly 20 to load up CQ was a massive faux pas, and completely against the aforementioned promise. Especially in light of some people wanting to dock just to repair/dump loot etc... It also removed lots of handy functions, notably the right click menu on the ship, or the drag and drop abilities.

Then we have the NEX store.
Recorded statements from last June saying CCP had no plans for RMT, previous April Fools jokes with the CEO mocking RMT and Free-to-play, then suddently, "hi guys, new currency and RMT!", when it was pretty obvious it was not only incompatible with Eve's subscription model, completely against the sandbox and player run economy which is one of the big points that makes Eve a success, but also against the wishes of the vast majority of the playerbase (and one of the reasons they played EVE was that it didn't have RMT).

Then to top it off not only were the items priced out of the market, a decision was made to go against one of Eve's core principles: Everything you own can be destroyed and space is brutal.
That, outside of RMT being in game in the first place, is the biggest sin of the entire NEX concept.

And then we had all the bullshit afterwards. Like the $1000 pair of jeans rubbish. Gold Scorps and the rest of it.
Cybele Lanier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2011-11-26 13:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Cybele Lanier
Etheoma wrote:
I think your oversimplifying things a little, people like to play speak etc face to face and when that's not possible a virtual representation is more personal than a name, a picture and a ship Incarna hasnt yet delivered on this because its basically still in development, people keep saying oh incarna is useless... ITS IN THE GAME FOR TESTING PROPOSES, now you could argue that they should keep it on the test server but then you wouldn't get as many people testing to see if it actually works on most computers. .


Which is fine, but then don't sell it as the central point of a whole expansion. And don't force your audience to test it even if their computers can't handle it.

I liked the idea of being able to wander around in the flesh, see the different station environments, chat to people in person and have things I owned represented in 3d*. But right now, it seems they aimed far too high on what people's computers could handle and now it looks like we'll have to wait until a multi-character environment can be made without PC's going aargh and dying. And given the record on developing features after the first bit fanfare, WIS will stay as it is, and be one more underdeveloped feature thrown onto a large pile of stuff that has languished for years.

(Prove me wrong on that, please.)

Dr Karsun wrote:
The problem is that somewhere between the idea and the final product delivered there was a huge mistake made by a developer who decided to make virtual clothing more expensive than real clothing.


Not to mention, a lot of the clothing is just plain drab. Someone really needs to tell the clothing designers that it's okay to use colours other than black or grey! Where are the "semi-opaque plastic & taffeta" Gallente outfits or the barbed-wire Minmatar hair accessory from the old chargen? Things that were eyecatching, distinctive and futuristic looking.



* I'm still holding out for frozen corpses being represented as heads mounted on your wall.

"You don't need luck. You need theft things and run."

Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#28 - 2011-11-26 13:20:25 UTC
I don't hate Incarna, the execution was flawed and incomplete but the concept behind, is great, making EVE into the ultimate sci-fi experience.

Look at the Singularity , or wait for tuesday and you will see the stunning artwork with the new CQ. That and multiplayer content should have been included from the very beginning.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.

Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-11-26 13:25:50 UTC
When it was announced, I went "oh boy, next will be the naked dancing blue elves on tables - like WoW". Not something I'm into.

I consoled myself that it would be optional and I wouldn't have to go into those stations and see all the male avatars running around in wedding dresses nor the female avatars doing table dances, etc...

Then they removed the ship spinning and forced me into a single room and said "we'll give you the rest soon..." With a big fat RMT store stuck in there for me to buy cut-out barbie clothing for my char - jammed in my face.

If I wanted barbie dolls in space, I'd have signed up for that in an avatar driven game but I didn't. I don't want that crap stuck in my face, etc.

I don't "hate" it any more than I hate mining or other such activities I'm not really into in this game. If I don't want to watch ships shooting rocks with lasers, I don't have to and if I don't want barbie and ken dressup, I really don't think I should be stuck with that cra... err, "part of the game" either.

It is part of the game and there are those that want to get involved in it. Good for them and I hope CCP gives them a nice bunch of outfits to dress their dollies up with.

Just don't make me have to participate in it and I'll be glad to mutter about them "fixing" that side instead of what I want, just like other parts of the game and it looks like they might be listening. I get my ship spinning back, without having to go into that captains quarters so I'm a happy camper.

Again, for my part: I"m not hateful of what they want to put in. I just want that to remain optional - leaving me with my spaceship game and let others do whatever the hell they want dancing and prancing around in stations.
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2011-11-26 13:57:13 UTC
Mocam wrote:
When it was announced, I went "oh boy, next will be the naked dancing blue elves on tables - like WoW". Not something I'm into.


Thankfully none of the races in EVE is blue, nor elves. So we won't see any of that nonesence.

As many have said before. The concept is cool. The execution could been better.

Someone earlier said that people like dates more than promises. Personally I like truths more than dates.

I would have no problem waiting some more if CCP had gone out and said that we will launch this in full when its ready, not on "x" day. For the moment we give you this as a preview of whats to come and a way for us to test performances.

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.

Di Mulle
#31 - 2011-11-26 14:18:42 UTC
You can't hate Incarna concept, because it has none.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#32 - 2011-11-26 14:18:55 UTC
Bischopt wrote:
Incarna was nothing more than a platform for nex. They needed money so they released a half finished, pointless feature and hoped nobody would notice how bad it is.


IT isn't fully released beacause all you haters QQed and shoot the memorial and stuff Ugh

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Ghoest
#33 - 2011-11-26 15:01:50 UTC
I hate dev resources being spent on Incarna instead of spaceships.

So you could say I defacto hate Incarna even though its existence doesnt bother me at all.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are

Rhaegor Stormborn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2011-11-26 15:03:51 UTC
I don't hate Incarna exactly, but nothing it brings to the table warrents development resources.
Selinate
#35 - 2011-11-26 15:14:11 UTC
Most of the folks who actually just hate Incarna itself and never want an avatar are the insecure lot who likes to be able to tell people that they play a hardcore internet spaceship game, and the idea of having avatars just like WoW or second life just infuriates them.

I.E. they're compensating for something...
supersexysucker
Uber Awesome Fantastico Awesomeness Group
#36 - 2011-11-26 15:15:23 UTC
Idea good, ccps normal fail of launching something... 100% worthless

Took 3 years for me to be able to jerk off alone in my CQ that my vid card could hardly render, let alone once you got 2+ clients open... most exciting thing finding the bug that let you get on the table? Ya...

How much dev time was lost when it could have been making the game better.

WiS... nothing more than a way to sell us more crap for RL money WHILE fing us over with a sub for a game that is hardly getting any core dev.

Right, I say the whole concept was the NEX store... IMHO so I yep hate the whole concept of runway in space.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2011-11-26 15:18:52 UTC
Original concept was called Ambulation as far as i know / remember.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-11-26 15:20:12 UTC
/emote drags in a dead horse.

Commence the beatings.

Don't ban me, bro!

Selinate
#39 - 2011-11-26 16:16:05 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
/emote drags in a dead horse.

Commence the beatings.



You didn't have to drag in a dead horse, your face already looks close enough to one.

I will commence the beatings of your horse face P
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2011-11-26 17:25:01 UTC
The original idea was good but then ego decided to create an new engine instead of a working engine and that failed horribly. Greeed decided that they would charge your wallet for items AND charge for a suscription. I could see conveience items (like training 2 characters on one account for a time) but CCP, like the industry as a whole, can't tell the difference between power and convenience. Therefore NEX can never work. NEX also breaks any immersion that WIS could have provided anyway.

I wouldn't mind WIS if I could walk into the market exchanges, just to see it. It could have had role playing possibilities like FIS/WIS quests that affect loyalty with specific groups. This would have been a good tool to get into Pirate Factions or start a character along a path of extreme loyalty to the Amarrian Royal Families. Perhaps Perform some Minmatar Spiritual journey that in the end secures your place within a particular organization. Maybe just wander the shops of the Gallente capital. BAR FIGHTS! Hack Station consoles for random BPC's or intel. Run a bar. Instead we got a money grab selling ugly, unimaginative clothes and useless items for unusable barbies. Big step down from the original concepts. It went from "lets make a world" to "lets sell some boots".

I don't hate the Incarna idea. I hate the execution of the idea and the fact CCP let everything go to crap while they made things they were going to force down the plaer base's throats.