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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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Venetian Tar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#341 - 2014-02-06 17:30:55 UTC
BoomBoss wrote:
So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?

It just so happens that whatever the CFC wants, or whatever the biggest coalition is at that time, you give them. History (bpo's) repeating itself again?


We won the war and even abused the **** out of it ourselves before these changes were announced, but keep crying about it.

I don't hate you, I'm just not necessarily excited about your existance.
Wolf Kraft
Underground Smellroad
#342 - 2014-02-06 17:31:13 UTC
What's to prevent the designated drone bunny from just using ISBoxer instead now?
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#343 - 2014-02-06 17:31:42 UTC
BoomBoss wrote:
So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?

It just so happens that whatever the CFC wants, or whatever the biggest coalition is at that time, you give them. History (bpo's) repeating itself again?


Can you tell your friends in alliance chat to come and help you post this message? I do need some more entertainment.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Darius JOHNSON
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#344 - 2014-02-06 17:32:21 UTC
Wolf Kraft wrote:
What's to prevent the designated drone bunny from just using ISBoxer instead now?


Absolutely nothing. Hope this helps!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#345 - 2014-02-06 17:34:05 UTC
BoomBoss wrote:
So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?

Seems we did counter it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
MukkBarovian
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#346 - 2014-02-06 17:34:21 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I can't put a number on it, but currently Dominixes are responsible for somewhere in the ballpark of 5 times the PVP damage dealt of the next most popular fleet battleship, if that's still the case in a few months this will have 'not worked'.


Nerf Domi? Without drone assist at all the ship is a beast. Its currently got bonuses better than any other T1 ship.
50% Damage (We will ignore drone HP)
37.5% Optimal range
37.5% Tracking

For ***** and giggles lets compare against other BS with damage application bonuses.
Apocalypse
37.5% Optimal Range
37.5% Tracking
No damage bonus

Megathron
25% Rate of Fire
37.5% Tracking
No range bonus

Rokh
20% Shield Resistance
50% Optimal range
No tracking or damage bonus

Despite their cripplingly inferior bonuses somehow these other ships don't begin to see the usage the Domi enjoys.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#347 - 2014-02-06 17:35:15 UTC
Arkived wrote:
The assist function gets about 50% chance of actually assisting who you select. Most of the time they just sit their floating around doing nothing :).

Works perfect in WH and 0.0 but very iffy in LS

Steve Ronuken wrote:
Arkived wrote:
Please make drone assist work correct first in LS



What doesn't work right? For those of us who haven't run into it.


Do you have Safety set to Red?

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#348 - 2014-02-06 17:36:38 UTC
Wolf Kraft wrote:
What's to prevent the designated drone bunny from just using ISBoxer instead now?

I'm perfectly fine with this, considering how much effort it would take, in a fleet of say 200 drone-using subcaps, to assign drones to one of 20 drone triggers. Not to mention the fact that this poor bastard would have to be running 20 clients in combat.
It's incredibly impractical.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#349 - 2014-02-06 17:36:59 UTC
guys is this the nullsec shitflinging forum
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#350 - 2014-02-06 17:38:15 UTC
MukkBarovian wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I can't put a number on it, but currently Dominixes are responsible for somewhere in the ballpark of 5 times the PVP damage dealt of the next most popular fleet battleship, if that's still the case in a few months this will have 'not worked'.


Nerf Domi? Without drone assist at all the ship is a beast. Its currently got bonuses better than any other T1 ship.
50% Damage (We will ignore drone HP)
37.5% Optimal range
37.5% Tracking

For ***** and giggles lets compare against other BS with damage application bonuses.
Apocalypse
37.5% Optimal Range
37.5% Tracking
No damage bonus

Megathron
25% Rate of Fire
37.5% Tracking
No range bonus

Rokh
20% Shield Resistance
50% Optimal range
No tracking or damage bonus

Despite their cripplingly inferior bonuses somehow these other ships don't begin to see the usage the Domi enjoys.

Because bonuses exist in isolation and have nothing to do with relative strengths of unbonused weapons.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Wolf Kraft
Underground Smellroad
#351 - 2014-02-06 17:38:19 UTC
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
Wolf Kraft wrote:
What's to prevent the designated drone bunny from just using ISBoxer instead now?


Absolutely nothing. Hope this helps!


So being doing something, CCP has accomplished nothing.
Meryl Nardieu
Hard Rock University
#352 - 2014-02-06 17:39:18 UTC
Not sure if this was brought up, but wont this make Capital drone boats less desired.

You can either bring 50 unbonused capital drones or 50 bonused sup capital drones.

Seems like more of a nerf to capitals then drone fleets in general just my 2 cents though.
Llyona
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#353 - 2014-02-06 17:40:09 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
it still makes no sense .. how a ship can control more drones than its bandwidth allows which surely makes drone assist a ridiculous mechanic does it not???


Limiting assist to bandwidth would just delegate assists to a super carrier, as their bandwidth would be able to control 500 sentries. I support their tweaking the drone control to 50, as it has a smaller impact on the PVE community, than an outright removal of the feature.

EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.
Kaphrah
Thats my BOI
#354 - 2014-02-06 17:40:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaphrah
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
You specifically said that you didn't want to negatively impact incursion fleets.

HQ incursion fleets have 200 light drones (5 x 40 fleet members) to be assigned.

AS fleets have 100 drones (5 x 20 members).

VG fleets have 50 (5 x 10) unless your community 'runs heavy' with more than 10 on grid and most communities do.

In summary: it seems that although you specifically said you didn't want to negatively impact on incursion runners, this change will have a significant negative impact on that group.

Alternative solution: might it be possible to set different number caps for each type of drone? e.g. 50 sentry, 75 heavy, 100 medium, etc... This would be implemented by giving each drone a new hidden variable called something like "remoteAssistContrib" and you'd cap that instead of just the raw number of drones. That way you could assign 50 sentries OR 200 light drones, but not both at the same time. Combinations like 25 sentries and 100 light drones would be possible.

Here's a question I think needs asking:
How much do you actually need drone assist in incursions?


Yeah CCP is right, totally passive gameplay if DPS shoots Battleships and stuff while Dronebunny kills frigates. Everybody should lock up frigates on his own and then send Drones on them as it would be way too easy to kill the Frigates with 1400's and Tachyons cause the players are so passive and there are no other Targets on grid anyway. [/SARCASM]

Sorry but the change with a flat Number at 50 and the argument not to impact Incursion fleets in the same Post is kinda senseless. Change it like stated above, make a difference between light drones, sentries and other stuff like heavies.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#355 - 2014-02-06 17:40:42 UTC
Darius JOHNSON wrote:

I can't even decipher this gibberish but your illusions about how CCP works made it through and it's apparent you're still rolling strong from the BDCI school of ignorance. Maybe make some fake internet mercenary coins about it or post a few pages about how confused you are about whether you're a human being or a girl in an internet space game to get it out of your system.

:edit: I don't even care what corp you're in that 's how I roll


what?Roll

the only thing i am confused about is what your point is?

do you agree game mechanics that cause lag is bad?

if so then why is one mechanic commonly used by the CFC okay but one used by others is bad and requires nerfs?

you can see the hypocracy in the arugment can you not?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#356 - 2014-02-06 17:41:56 UTC
BoomBoss wrote:
So, goons cry they are unable to counter an established slowcat fleet and you just say; "Ok, we go nerf it then". Are you f*cking serious?

It just so happens that whatever the CFC wants, or whatever the biggest coalition is at that time, you give them. History (bpo's) repeating itself again?




Do you really want to spend the rest of your time playing EVE in three ships, assisting drones then going off to make dinner and/or fapping? Is that really a good for the longevity of the game? Is it really worth paying money to do the same thing, week in, week out for eternity? Because that is what you're asking for.

Anyway, we beat that doctrine by dropping all the capitals on it. Which unfortunately was the only real counter. Now you have to contend with 600+ dreads being dropped on you every time you undock. Good times.
Wolf Kraft
Underground Smellroad
#357 - 2014-02-06 17:42:11 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Wolf Kraft wrote:
What's to prevent the designated drone bunny from just using ISBoxer instead now?

I'm perfectly fine with this, considering how much effort it would take, in a fleet of say 200 drone-using subcaps, to assign drones to one of 20 drone triggers. Not to mention the fact that this poor bastard would have to be running 20 clients in combat.
It's incredibly impractical.


That's the thing, ISBoxer would replicate inputs across all 20 clients. The person in charge of those clients is still doing the same amount of work as they did before. With the added benefit of having redundancy now, because if you lose a drone trigger only a handful of people need to reassign. Just have the person assigning the drone put their drone trigger in their watch list and they know roughly when to assign drones to another trigger.
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#358 - 2014-02-06 17:42:34 UTC
Also, how will this work in practice? I try to assist my drones and the game tells me yes or no, or will any drones assigned above the magic number simply remain unresponsive?
Ivory Kantenu
Apotheosis.
#359 - 2014-02-06 17:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ivory Kantenu
[Edited to clean a misquote.

I think this is a great first step in the right direction, but if I may, I just have a thought here.

Why don't we make it UP TO 50 drones instead of a flat 50. A great way to do this is make drone assist require a set amount of CPU to be dedicated to it.

IE: make it so every assisted stone takes up a flat number of CPU per 1. Say that number is 5. So if a ship has only 50 bandwidth free, he can only have to 10 additional drones assigned to him. This instantly alleviates the issue of Interceptors being the triggers, and scales well as you go up in ship size / tech level, while allowing Carriers to still have this mechanic working to its fullest extent.

I apologize if the grammar seems weird, I'm on my phone and spellcheck is silly sometimes.

[i]Learn the basics of Wormhole Selling: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101693&find=unread[/i]
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#360 - 2014-02-06 17:44:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Leigh Akiga
Meryl Nardieu wrote:
Seems like more of a nerf to capitals then drone fleets in general just my 2 cents though.


With the advent of the drone damage amplifier and T2 omnis- a small alliance with about 200 active pilots have been able to take and control something absurd like 29 regions and rent them all out because of this. They need to take this further and address the capital blob along with power projection and jump drives.