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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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1Robert McNamara1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#281 - 2014-02-06 16:49:46 UTC
Good change. Timing is nice too. War is over, so everyone can go back to the drawing boards to figure out what BS doctrine is next.

To put it bluntly, if you cannot handle the complexity of a few more drone bunnies in your fleet, you probably shouldn't be holding space. Alpha fleets require timing coordination, Brawler fleets require careful piloting and positioning, Drone fleets now require a tiny bit more coordination between leaders. Deal with it.

For those asking for more changes, good on you. Eve should be a more engaging game. 1 change at a time please. There's lots of 'fair use' cases for Fleet warp and broadcast that still require an active user to align, target, shoot/rep, and drop targets as they become lower priority or catch reps.
Andy Koraka
State War Academy
Caldari State
#282 - 2014-02-06 16:50:50 UTC
So unless I'm one of the 4 triage carriers in a full subcap fleet (or I'm suicide Triage to save some Supercaps) my Archon has no reason to ever enter combat again.

I understand the reasons behind breaking drone assist, but there needs to be a replacement mechanic. Maybe some changes to Fighters to make them actually useful would keep Carriers relevant.
Waltaratzor
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
#283 - 2014-02-06 16:50:54 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Why 50? That still seems too much.


This is certainly the most common concern we ran into. As I said above, we think it's low enough. We didn't want to go lower because of the potential impact on other uses for assist, but if this doesn't work we will consider going lower at that point.


This is going to really hurt HQ incursions. A cap of 50 is going to require 4 drone assisted players instead of 1.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#284 - 2014-02-06 16:51:32 UTC
Sounds good.

Any plans to do any more work on drones - like in the UI or something to help out drone-users that are not part of the Archon-Sentry movement :)

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#285 - 2014-02-06 16:51:39 UTC
No matter which side you fall on this issue, the one positive is that CCP waited until the war ended (for all intents and purposes) before announcing the nerf.

Unless it's totally coincidental, I think the restraint in addressing the situation is commendable and both CCP and the CSM should adopt this approach! That if something needs to be addressed, but addressing it in the moment will prejudice an outcome ingame (as in sov warfare), then the better approach is to wait for the end of the situation - or at minimum a significant lull - before changing anything.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Darius JOHNSON
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#286 - 2014-02-06 16:52:23 UTC
A needed change well done! Best of luck to the Nulli pilots in learning how to actually fly and fight with spaceships.
Hendrick Tallardar
Doomheim
#287 - 2014-02-06 16:52:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Hendrick Tallardar
HVAC Repairman wrote:
normally id be with you, but there are a number of hearing impaired people who require broadcasts to be able to do anything in big fleet pvp


Counterpoint: Have them be the meatshield.

Xander Phoena wrote:
TAckermassacker wrote:
Did someone mention that the last AT was won by 39 Sentries?
so why dont go to like 20?


So you want the entirety of Eve to be balanced based on 8 man AT teams? You fo' realz dawg?


Dead sizzle my nizzle.

Darius JOHNSON wrote:
A needed change well done! Best of luck to the Nulli pilots in learning how to actually fly and fight with spaceships.


You just don't get this whole "retiring from EVE thing" do you?
Logix42
Taxation Damnation
#288 - 2014-02-06 16:53:43 UTC
Since it would seem you don't want to hinder Vanguard incursion fleets I would suggest bringing the number up to 60. It is pretty standard to fly 11-12 man fleets so that as pilots rotate in and out the number of pilots in fleet doesn't drop below 10. We find that the small ISK penalty for flying 1 or 2 over is offset by the time improvements of having that extra dps and by not running sub-optimally when a couple pilots need to leave.

Vangaurds Standard: 12 pilots
Please consider 60 drones as the assist cap

Go beyond the edge of space... Explore
Mister Pirate
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#289 - 2014-02-06 16:53:46 UTC
Sort Dragon wrote:
We went through alot with ccp for this. And for now this is a good change.


^ Planning to nerf carriers and blob systems with 4000 megas.

sort is just butt-hurt
Zoldarion Katelo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#290 - 2014-02-06 16:56:35 UTC
Very nice change hopefully we will regain some BS size fleet diversity.
Zomgnomnom
Contra Ratio
GameTheory
#291 - 2014-02-06 16:56:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Zomgnomnom
Oh Takashawa wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
  • Affect carriers more heavily than sub-caps (because they can field 10 drones per ship rather than 5)
    • Can we take this as a sign, then, that CCP holds the opinion that capitals should offer even fewer advantages to offset the increased cost, effort, risk, and skills required to effectively field them, as compared to simply fielding big piles of subcaps?

    Also, a broader question - do you intend to leave any force multipliers in EVE, Rise, or simply reduce it to whoever has more dudes in T1 subcaps, or alternatively, in bombers? It seems to be trending a lot that way lately, and I'm just curious if that's intentional or simply persistent oversight.



    I would like to see this question addressed.

    Some of the changes were needed and I am pretty happy with. There are others though that cause one to wonder if a few of the Dev's are intentionally playing stupid.


    I also really like the suggestion to cap it based on bandwidth and not a flat number. This accomplishes the same goal while allowing incursion runners and small/mid size engagements the usage of the mechanic. 1250 bandwidth would give you the same 50 sentries and would facilitate a higher number of medium and light drones for those other types of game play.
    Ais Hellia
    Jita Honor Industries Union
    #292 - 2014-02-06 16:57:40 UTC
    sennett wrote:
    remember carriers are 1.1 bil for the hull not 170 mnil, they SHOULD be better


    My chremoas is 100bil per hull
    it SHOULD solo like 10 capital ships atleast
    right? RIGHT?
    Dinsdale Pirannha
    Pirannha Corp
    #293 - 2014-02-06 16:58:16 UTC
    Motoko Snow wrote:
    Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
    What is so sad in this whole mess is the fact that no speaks about.
    Sentry drones were unloved, and unchanged, for years.
    People used heavies.
    No one cared about drone command.

    Then along came fozzie who wiped out heavies in missions with the AI changes.
    This still did not affect sentries or heavies in PvP.
    Then he and his new sidekick went full-on , how do I say it politely, "special needs", and with their alterations to the Domi and Ishtar turned them into death machines from insane distances, and null sec tacticians took full advantage of it.
    Factor in the ability of many more people to be on-grid, courtesy of CCP's efforts, and we ended up with the cluster-**** we have today.

    Now, we see sentry drones ruined for PvE, and highly restrictive limits on drone command.

    Which all could have been avoided by addressing the range bonuses on the Ishtar and Domi, after it was demonstrated that the null sec groups were exploiting the design to ridiculous levels.

    But nope, someone's hubris and inability to acknowledge they have created a huge mess with their past decisions and alter the past decisions, well, has resulted with things like this announcement and last weeks Omni accouncement.

    One person's screwup has huge implications on the entire game, including people that were never part of the exploitation of the Domi and Ishtar fleets in null sec.

    Bravo.



    Thank you for following through, for a second there I almost thought you weren't going to rage about this. But, thankfully, to my satisfaction I get to read yet another delicious tears post from you about how every change in this game is aimed to hurt you personally and benefit nullsec. Bravo.


    Actually no.
    But thanks for playing.
    Here is your fabulous parting gift.

    No doubt high sec got caught in the whining of the goons and CCP's inevitable response.
    But also a huge chunk of null sec, and possibly wormhole mechanics, are fubared by this.

    If CCP had the foresight (and I clearly don't mean the pair who created the initial mess and keep compounding it) to actually address the hull bonuses of the Domi and Ishtar, we could avoid all these other far more invasive problems created by this supposed "solution to sentries being OP".

    Oh, and btw, this change does not affect me personally.
    I gave up Incursions when this crew wrecked the Marauders, and shelved my drone boats in missions when the Omni's were destroyed by the same bunch.
    Ivana Twinkle
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #294 - 2014-02-06 16:59:06 UTC
    Waltaratzor wrote:
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    Why 50? That still seems too much.


    This is certainly the most common concern we ran into. As I said above, we think it's low enough. We didn't want to go lower because of the potential impact on other uses for assist, but if this doesn't work we will consider going lower at that point.


    This is going to really hurt HQ incursions. A cap of 50 is going to require 4 drone assisted players instead of 1.


    Whatever did you do before the game of drones?
    sennett
    Infinite Point
    Pandemic Horde
    #295 - 2014-02-06 17:00:29 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
    Ais Hellia wrote:
    sennett wrote:
    remember carriers are 1.1 bil for the hull not 170 mnil, they SHOULD be better


    My chremoas is 100bil per hull
    it SHOULD solo like 10 capital ships atleast
    right? RIGHT?


    no. because thats a collectors item. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
    Speedkermit Damo
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #296 - 2014-02-06 17:00:30 UTC
    Zakn Tawate wrote:
    Anya Solette wrote:

    Also I think Mittani may need to get treatment from a doctor for acute smugness overdose.


    Unfortunately there is no known treatment for that affliction.


    A good hard headbutt usually does the trick.

    Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
    MeBiatch
    GRR GOONS
    #297 - 2014-02-06 17:00:47 UTC
    Andy Koraka wrote:
    So unless I'm one of the 4 triage carriers in a full subcap fleet (or I'm suicide Triage to save some Supercaps) my Archon has no reason to ever enter combat again.

    I understand the reasons behind breaking drone assist, but there needs to be a replacement mechanic. Maybe some changes to Fighters to make them actually useful would keep Carriers relevant.


    not going to happen. ccp likes sub caps. because goons like sub caps.

    honestly when was the last time a capital ship was boosted? I think since 06 when i started to play there has been nothing but rebalance nerfs to them... only boost would be to dreads with tech II siege mod and reduced to 5 min instead of 10.

    There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

    Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
    1Of9
    A Blessed Bean
    Pandemic Horde
    #298 - 2014-02-06 17:02:03 UTC
    Seems a bit odd to me that when ccp talks about "community" is usually referring to goons.

    That Mitanus idiot that have high connections in CCP really knows how to use them.


    anyway, CCP: Can you kindly just grow some balls and remove caps from the game? We vets that actually been paying for this goon fest game would like to spend our time doing something useful besides skilling for stuff that goons want nerfed all the time.

    Or at least consider bringing AoE DD again, because honestly, you just removed the only counter in game against the blob (goons).

    With this change, they are invincible, there is no weapon to defeat them.


    Quote:
    [14:48:37] directorbot: Drone assist is being limited to 50 drones per person. You may now spend the rest of the day posting like maniacs while trolling our various defeated foes. Enjoy yourselves, you've earned it. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=319278

    Yes, this means we'll have to toss Dominixes into the dustbin and return to using some real goddamned warships once this hits. :toot:

    *** This was a broadcast from the_mittani to all-all at 2014-02-06 14:48:34.730289 EVE, replies are not monitored ***


    This make it pretty obvious that mitanus was involved, ccp caved in again.



    CCP Rise wrote:

  • We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy.

    • I just wanted to quote this because, CCP dont even realize that this is a S A N D B O X game, everyone should be able to do whatever they want. If i want to spend days in a row docked, fine. If i want to spend weeks auto piloting back and forth, fine. If i want to gate camp for hours without anyone coming thru, fine. If i want to be in a fleet doing nothing but repping and assigning drones ... i cant. yay
    scimichar
    Deep Hole Explorers of New Eden
    #299 - 2014-02-06 17:02:14 UTC
    Make drone assist work like fighters currently work. Fixed.
    The Djego
    Hellequin Inc.
    #300 - 2014-02-06 17:03:54 UTC
    Since you already tweak the mechanics, would it be possible to add a extra check option to set assisted drones to passive and add a extra key that you can use instead having the assisted drones follow your guns/ew?

    Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread