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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

First post First post First post
Author
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#141 - 2014-02-06 15:17:58 UTC
Javajunky wrote:
+1 that way we can start flying baltec fleet again, Megathron fleets are sexy as hell.



Please do. Please please please.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Frygok
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#142 - 2014-02-06 15:19:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Frygok
I don't care much for drone doctrines, so personally I don't get too fuzzed about this. However, what makes me annoyed is that you seem incredibly keen on nerfing symptoms, rather than actual issues.

Letting one person control the combined drones of an entire fleet is bad. Okay, fair enough. But why oh why, is it absolutely fine for one person in the entire fleet be the prober, the fleet warper and the broadcaster of targets for the entire fleet? How is that in any way different from drone assisting, in terms of what is required of a player? Oh no, you have to shift+clik and push F1, mad skills there!

If you really wanted to make players more involved in these fights, you would put more responsibility on the individual pilot, for instance removing fleet warp and broadcasting targets, and only being able to warp/broadcast to your own wing.

I would think that changing how fleets work altogether should be the goal, to require more pilot involvement, but instead you are trying to cure underlying mechanics by putting on a bandaid on the most superficial wound. It is the exact same pattern as with the changes to supers vs. the underlying problem of sov mechanics and too easy movement of big fleets.
Kesthely
State War Academy
Caldari State
#143 - 2014-02-06 15:20:18 UTC
How does this work in chaining, eg if 10 squad members have their sentries assisted to the squad leader, 5 squad leaders (carriers) have theirs assisted to a wing commander, and 5 wing commanders have it assisted to one fleet commander, you still basicly have all the drones assisted to one player? Fleet commander shoots, drones aggress from the first chain, wich makes the drones from the second chain agress etc?

Is this method explored?
TAckermassacker
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#144 - 2014-02-06 15:20:25 UTC
Did someone mention that the last AT was won by 39 Sentries?
so why dont go to like 20?
ReeeZaaa
DEFCON.
The Initiative.
#145 - 2014-02-06 15:20:41 UTC
just want to say thank you for this really needed change and for the reasonable solution to the problem.
very good work CSM and CCP!
Neddy Fox
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#146 - 2014-02-06 15:20:52 UTC
In b4 "nerf Celestis". These become very powerful now.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2014-02-06 15:20:55 UTC
50 drones? Wow, that's going to make PVP in Nullsec require tactics and strategy again. Weiiird.

I'm honestly more excited at his subtle mention of an upcoming Drone overhaul, though. (The mention of how Drones - as they are now - are taxing on the hardware.)
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#148 - 2014-02-06 15:21:12 UTC
#ThanksCCP
Kari Trace
#149 - 2014-02-06 15:22:26 UTC
C0NRAD wrote:
We feel that drone assist, at a large scale, leads to passive gameplay that most players do not enjoy

absolutly agree.

BUT u just incresing target callers count. 50 dominix - 250 drones - 5 target callers.


This.

I like making things explode.

Kari Trace

The Ironfist
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#150 - 2014-02-06 15:22:30 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Crysantos Callahan wrote:
So we just use 5x Wing leaders with drone assists on them for a full fleet?

Just saying...


As long as the members of those wings only have one drone each, then sure!


Since you are removing the upsides of drones what about the downsides? Will they get any boosts? Like more better resists for drones to increase their lifetime on the field? Given how stupidly easy it is to strip drone doctrines that are not capital based of their dps?
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2014-02-06 15:22:40 UTC
Frygok wrote:
I don't care much for drone doctrines, so personally I don't get too fuzzed about this. However, what makes me annoyed is that you seem incredibly keen on nerfing symptoms, rather than actual issues.

Letting one person control the combined drones of an entire fleet is bad. Okay, fair enough. But why oh why, is it absolutely fine for one person in the entire fleet be the prober, the fleet warper and the broadcaster of targets for the entire fleet? How is that in any way different from drone assisting, in terms of what is required of a player? Oh no, you have to shift+clik and push F1, mad skills there!

If you really wanted to make players more involved in these fights, you would put more responsibility on the individual pilot, for instance removing fleet warp and broadcasting targets, and only being able to warp/broadcast to your own wing.

I would think that changing how fleets work altogether should be the goal, to require more pilot involvement, but instead you are trying to cure underlying mechanics by putting on a bandaid on the most superficial wound. It is the exact same pattern as with the changes to supers vs. the underlying problem of sov mechanics and too easy movement of big fleets.


normally id be with you, but there are a number of hearing impaired people who require broadcasts to be able to do anything in big fleet pvp
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#152 - 2014-02-06 15:23:17 UTC
TAckermassacker wrote:
Did someone mention that the last AT was won by 39 Sentries?
so why dont go to like 20?


mm.. this mechanic still won't change the AT/new eden open being sentry online ... frigs still controlling the teams sentries

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Aapir
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2014-02-06 15:23:51 UTC
THe goonies are getting the drones nerfed now. #reckt
its ok N3pl will adapt and find counter. oh wait they have no ships lol
They go back in Drone Regions, get it?
Xander Phoena
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#154 - 2014-02-06 15:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Xander Phoena
TAckermassacker wrote:
Did someone mention that the last AT was won by 39 Sentries?
so why dont go to like 20?


So you want the entirety of Eve to be balanced based on 8 man AT teams? You fo' realz dawg?

www.crossingzebras.com

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#155 - 2014-02-06 15:24:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
20 should be enough, no need to go at 50....
EDIT: Hell even 5/10 should be enough. There is no case where logi ships are more numerous than dps ships so it would be cool to see every logi having its own personal drone assist.
Or if you really want to help people like logi assisting with small drones, limit by brandwidth.

Nice change, but as always the baby steps will just ruin the good will.

Remember the phoenix and the missile explotion velocity change: Baby step.
Did it change the Phoenix in the right direction? Yes.
Was it enough? Lol nope. By far.
Did it had any practical effect on the Phoenix use in pvp? Nope.

This is going to be the same.

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Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#156 - 2014-02-06 15:25:17 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Putting cap for 50 drones is good direction, but:
- fast locking ceptor having assist of 50 sentry drones is still way OP
- fleets will go from assist to drone bunny to assist to your squad leader. ( this is still very bad )

My proposal:
- frigates/destroyers/cruisers/battle cruisers can have max 5 drones assisted.
- other ships can have 25 drones assisted with the exception for command ships that can go to 50 drone cap when fitting some new module reserved only for Command Ships.


This Idea I do like... Add more use to us Command Ship pilots and have a reason to put them more into fleets. Make it a new module to equip kind of like the Drone Link Augmenter and give us a Skill to level up to hit that Cap to 50. Boosting those who Squad/Wing/Fleet command. This fits more players arguments about doing more then your own ships bandwidth and keeps it from just being tossed on whoever has the highest Sig radius to Blap with.
Abernie
Thoroughly Incompetent
#157 - 2014-02-06 15:25:48 UTC
Nami Alden wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:

Why 50?

To arrive at 50 we began by starting at complete removal of assist, and worked our way back up until we had caught all the use-cases for assist that we didn't want to impact negatively. That included frigates on gates trying to catch cloakers, small fleets trying to use assist to avoid e-war, logistics pilots who are too busy to manage their drones, and most importantly, incursioners. We believe 50 will leave all these uses unharmed while also heavily discouraging large fleet use.


No, no you haven't. 50 is not even enough for a typical VG fleet (12 pilots) and certainly not for an HQ with 40 pilots.

Just make the assist depend on drone bandwidth. That way you can limit alpha with sentries which can be considered main weapon while not interfering with light drones which are used as secondary damage application.

1250 bandwidth and this change is at least reasonable.

2 people have to take care of their own drones. ISK/h ruined. -17 accounts. Thanks CCP.

Also having to do math on 17 lights+ 12 mediums + 3 heavies + 11 sentries sounds like so much fun.
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#158 - 2014-02-06 15:27:00 UTC
Oh Takashawa wrote:
Can we take this as a sign, then, that CCP holds the opinion that capitals should offer even fewer advantages to offset the increased cost, effort, risk, and skills required to effectively field them, as compared to simply fielding big piles of subcaps?
Let me find the captial nerf in CCP Rise's post. Hmmm....oh wait, yeah, I don't see any changes to your slowcat still having a ridiculous ET, Rep range and amount, strong tank, capacitor all while still having your 10 sentries on the field.

If you can't see the "advantages" offered by this for "the increased cost, effort, risk, and skills required to effectively field them," then maybe flying a slowcat isn't for you. Imagine how broken it is that your ship can put out stupid dps while performing the other functions just as well. Be glad CCP Rise didn't change the range of reps/ET while not in triage. Or that drone assignment could only be done through some new module. Or any other of the many actual nerf options out there that he could have picked from.

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Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#159 - 2014-02-06 15:27:21 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Putting cap for 50 drones is good direction, but:
- fast locking ceptor having assist of 50 sentry drones is still way OP
- fleets will go from assist to drone bunny to assist to your squad leader. ( this is still very bad )

My proposal:
- frigates/destroyers/cruisers/battle cruisers can have max 5 drones assisted.
- other ships can have 25 drones assisted with the exception for command ships that can go to 50 drone cap when fitting some new module reserved only for Command Ships.

Good idea.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#160 - 2014-02-06 15:27:30 UTC
Abernie wrote:

2 people have to take care of their own drones. ISK/h ruined. -17 accounts. Thanks CCP.


Lol sad people brutally discovering that they actually need to play the game to make isks.

Being able to let someone else control your ship while afking is stupid by definition. This mechanism shouldn't exist in the first place.

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