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[Rubicon 1.3] Drone Assist change

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Kyalla Mayaki
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#121 - 2014-02-06 15:06:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyalla Mayaki
CCP Rise wrote:
Hello, some news:

[b]Coming soon, in a Rubicon point release, we are planning to add a hard cap to the number of drones that can be assisted to a single player. Currently, we are planning to set that cap at 50.


Make this easy to screw up to make the doctrine too dangerous to use in large battles. Let players assist more drones than the cap, don't give them any error message, but when they do, none of them will fire any more until someone figures out the problem and gets

This will likely avoid having to have reductions in the cap later - since one misbehaving pilot will shut down 50+ drones.
Vahl Ahashion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2014-02-06 15:06:59 UTC
Rathunterka wrote:



Well, kill2... no.
The socalled discussion was a number of unhappy whiny players, that were doctrinated to belive theyr own lies after a while, crying out loud because the game didnt allow them to win, despite having more ppl in fleets.
The drone assist carrier was founded and used to counter 250 celestis with 4damps locking beyond 200km in huge fleet fights.
Players addapted... using 100x expensier ships (20m celestis 2b carrier)

Im cool with you and fozzie nerfing everything the second masses start to cry. Its notning new after all... but your reasoning for doing so is just absurd.


News flash, we did win.
LakeEnd
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2014-02-06 15:08:15 UTC
Instead of hard coding a arbitrary cap in the game, could you not promote a player decision and fitting choice on this issue?

For example create a midslot module called Drone Manager that allows player to control 10 more drones, baseline without mods being 10 for example?
Vahl Ahashion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2014-02-06 15:09:06 UTC
greiton starfire wrote:
A quick look shows that you recognized a problem in the game

looked at various solutions to said problem

spoke to players and the csm about said solutions

recognized and addressed any issues that may come up as a result of the change

and gave us something we want.


this was a perfect execution of a game change, and while i wish it had come sooner i am glad you took the time to think out all the effects on diverse group's game play from a fundamental level. now you guys should put together a seminar for the other devs on how to make game changes. (maybe things like ess would have been proposed at the state it's currently in and not the hot mess it was).


Exactly this, well thought out, well balanced and exactly what the game needed.
Honest Blob
Doomheim
#125 - 2014-02-06 15:09:17 UTC
Vahl Ahashion wrote:
Rathunterka wrote:



Well, kill2... no.
The socalled discussion was a number of unhappy whiny players, that were doctrinated to belive theyr own lies after a while, crying out loud because the game didnt allow them to win, despite having more ppl in fleets.
The drone assist carrier was founded and used to counter 250 celestis with 4damps locking beyond 200km in huge fleet fights.
Players addapted... using 100x expensier ships (20m celestis 2b carrier)

Im cool with you and fozzie nerfing everything the second masses start to cry. Its notning new after all... but your reasoning for doing so is just absurd.


News flash, we did win.



It only took you 54k + people from the cfc and the entire russian coalition to beat somthing that was 2/3 the numbers of the cfc alone. Grats.
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2014-02-06 15:09:18 UTC
As someone being in such a fleet ... AMERICA **** YEEEEAAAHHH!!!!

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
Aya Nova
Bearded BattleBears
#127 - 2014-02-06 15:09:52 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Why 50?

To arrive at 50 we began by starting at complete removal of assist, and worked our way back up until we had caught all the use-cases for assist that we didn't want to impact negatively. That included frigates on gates trying to catch cloakers, small fleets trying to use assist to avoid e-war, logistics pilots who are too busy to manage their drones, and most importantly, incursioners.

How about limiting by bandwith? Allow assisting 1250 Mbit/sec. That way sentry/heavy drones are limited to 50 drones, but light and medium can assist 250 and 125 respectively. This will let incursion fleets of all sizes still have a drone bunny since incursion pilots always have guns/reps/webs/painters to operate and do not generate tidi.

This could work in conjunction with replacing carrier drone bonus with a "+20% per level drone damage, +20% per level drone bandwith use" and DCU function with "+20% drone damage, +20% drone bandwith use per module".
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#128 - 2014-02-06 15:10:34 UTC
Good change.

I'm an Ishtar skirmish pilot, and well, I like it, I'm alright with actually shooting with my own greasy fingers.

Thank you very much, Rise/Fozzie/Whoever was behind this.

Now onto the next balancing things : Pirate ships, T3s, Recons maybe, Blackops ? Please, stop teasing we know something is going on, let us EFTwarrior and kill stuff on Singularity with those new ships Sad
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#129 - 2014-02-06 15:10:34 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Before I go, I want to say that we've been looking at this for some time now. We've watched the discussion in the community evolve and also kept a close eye on TQ behavior. We began discussing this change with the CSM via internal forums just prior to the summit, and then spent significant time discussing it in person with them during the summit. Their feedback was valuable, as always, and gives us confidence that this is a good direction.
.


Hey Buddy.

I like where you are going but 50 drones is a sift kick in the groin to sentires. and lets be honnest its not 5000 orge II that are being assigned.

Solution can be the hard cap you suggested...

and at first when i read 50 i thought that was just 50 players not 50 drones in total.

so thats 10 domi's or 5 archons...

Personally I would make drone assist based on squads. you can only asign your dones to someone in your squad.

this would limit the amount of drones being assigned and also make it more personal skill and such vrs something this heavy handed.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
LnX0R
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#130 - 2014-02-06 15:11:35 UTC
You could make it skill dependent...
like you are able to control your own drones + 10 without an assist skill, and then +10 drones per skill level ?
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#131 - 2014-02-06 15:11:57 UTC
It could be determined by the size of the ship.
Frigates = 10 drones max, (That's 10 drones if the frigate doesn't have any deployed, and that number goes down depending on how many the frigate itself is deploying)
Destroyers = 15
Cruisers = 25
BCs = 35
Command BCs = 40
BSes = 45
And up = 50

Not only that, but make a new module that allows one to boost the amount of drones assistable to a ship. Or a command module that allows ships in fleet to have x more drones assistable to the ships in that squad.


Just throwing out ideas.
Venetian Tar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#132 - 2014-02-06 15:12:25 UTC
Honest Blob wrote:
Vahl Ahashion wrote:
Rathunterka wrote:



Well, kill2... no.
The socalled discussion was a number of unhappy whiny players, that were doctrinated to belive theyr own lies after a while, crying out loud because the game didnt allow them to win, despite having more ppl in fleets.
The drone assist carrier was founded and used to counter 250 celestis with 4damps locking beyond 200km in huge fleet fights.
Players addapted... using 100x expensier ships (20m celestis 2b carrier)

Im cool with you and fozzie nerfing everything the second masses start to cry. Its notning new after all... but your reasoning for doing so is just absurd.


News flash, we did win.



It only took you 54k + people from the cfc and the entire russian coalition to beat somthing that was 2/3 the numbers of the cfc alone. Grats.


Yeah, man. We totally threw 54 thousand people into one solar system to fight the N3 menace.

It's almost like you're trying to win the dumb award.

I don't hate you, I'm just not necessarily excited about your existance.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2014-02-06 15:12:54 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
this would limit the amount of drones being assigned and also make it more personal skill and such vrs something this heavy handed.

This change isn't heavy handed. Removing the mechanic completely would have been heavy handed.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2014-02-06 15:13:09 UTC
Honest Blob wrote:
Vahl Ahashion wrote:
Rathunterka wrote:



Well, kill2... no.
The socalled discussion was a number of unhappy whiny players, that were doctrinated to belive theyr own lies after a while, crying out loud because the game didnt allow them to win, despite having more ppl in fleets.
The drone assist carrier was founded and used to counter 250 celestis with 4damps locking beyond 200km in huge fleet fights.
Players addapted... using 100x expensier ships (20m celestis 2b carrier)

Im cool with you and fozzie nerfing everything the second masses start to cry. Its notning new after all... but your reasoning for doing so is just absurd.


News flash, we did win.



It only took you 54k + people from the cfc and the entire russian coalition to beat somthing that was 2/3 the numbers of the cfc alone. Grats.


remember how the entirety of n3/pl dogpiled solar to take the east, and when the russians got mad about the blobbing you told them to deal with it?

well deal with it

Follow me on twitter
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
#135 - 2014-02-06 15:15:07 UTC
Aya Nova wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Why 50?

To arrive at 50 we began by starting at complete removal of assist, and worked our way back up until we had caught all the use-cases for assist that we didn't want to impact negatively. That included frigates on gates trying to catch cloakers, small fleets trying to use assist to avoid e-war, logistics pilots who are too busy to manage their drones, and most importantly, incursioners.

How about limiting by bandwith? Allow assisting 1250 Mbit/sec. That way sentry/heavy drones are limited to 50 drones, but light and medium can assist 250 and 125 respectively. This will let incursion fleets of all sizes still have a drone bunny since incursion pilots always have guns/reps/webs/painters to operate and do not generate tidi.

This could work in conjunction with replacing carrier drone bonus with a "+20% per level drone damage, +20% per level drone bandwith use" and DCU function with "+20% drone damage, +20% drone bandwith use per module".


Except... the change was made to deal with large fleet drone tactics while still preserving assist for smaller applications. By giving bonuses like that to the carrier it would have the complete opposite effect, empower larger groups and hinder smaller gangs.
Nami Alden
Tierce Inc.
#136 - 2014-02-06 15:16:18 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:

Why 50?

To arrive at 50 we began by starting at complete removal of assist, and worked our way back up until we had caught all the use-cases for assist that we didn't want to impact negatively. That included frigates on gates trying to catch cloakers, small fleets trying to use assist to avoid e-war, logistics pilots who are too busy to manage their drones, and most importantly, incursioners. We believe 50 will leave all these uses unharmed while also heavily discouraging large fleet use.


No, no you haven't. 50 is not even enough for a typical VG fleet (12 pilots) and certainly not for an HQ with 40 pilots.

Just make the assist depend on drone bandwidth. That way you can limit alpha with sentries which can be considered main weapon while not interfering with light drones which are used as secondary damage application.

1250 bandwidth and this change is at least reasonable.
Powers Sa
#137 - 2014-02-06 15:16:23 UTC
Demotress wrote:
While you are at it, why not switch the name of the game to goons get what they want online. After all every time they tell you to change something, you do it. Nerf needed or not.

at least they waited until we won the war like with titans and drakes.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#138 - 2014-02-06 15:16:49 UTC
This is a small nerf to Incursion runners, and a heluva whack to the blobfests in null.

100 is a far more reasonable number than 50.
Raging Beaver
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2014-02-06 15:17:15 UTC
Demotress wrote:
While you are at it, why not switch the name of the game to goons get what they want online. After all every time they tell you to change something, you do it. Nerf needed or not.


Well, it could be because we are right about something, have you ever considered that? Oh, wait, you're in nulli... the answer just became obvious...
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
#140 - 2014-02-06 15:17:39 UTC
Sounds like the Eve to Porn time ratio for these big fights is going to take a nosedive.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven.