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Are PI skills the Best Use for Alts?
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Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-02-05 21:48:32 UTC
Advanced Planetology doesn't require any skills at V. It requires Planetology IV (which is really good to get anyway if you want accurate maps and useful extraction rates.
Planetology requires Remote Sensing III
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-02-06 14:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Oiras Isimazu
You're right , upon verification, it's still at Planetology IV, not V.

Planetology requiring Remote Sensing III explains why I had to train it to III...


Also, Customs Code Expertise requires Trade IV, which I only trained to 2...
Notes: Only affects NPC tax rate. NPC tax rate only exists in high security space and InterBus-owned Customs Offices.


It's possible that Remote Sensing is required to be able to get any data from planets though I forgot.
Perhaps its not a required skill to do PI.

The surveys and accuracy of what is where on the planet is harder to detect, but maybe you still produce.

The costs are the same, except perhaps that you make less ISK per minutes overall.


If PI in Hi-Sec, then Customs Code Expertise after Trade IV is almost necessary.
(Hi-sec PI is the only type I did so far, my last command center getting looted in null).

Low end costs:
Skillbooks:
Remote Sensing, 250,000 ISK
Customs Code Expertise, 3,000,000 ISK
Trade, 20,000 ISK
Interplanetary Consolidation 500,000 ISK
Command Center Upgrade 500,000 ISK
Subtotal:
4,270m ISK.

Other costs:
Planetology, 1,000,000 ISK
Advanced Planetology, 7,500,000 ISK
Subtotal:
8,500m ISK.

Epithal, 1,500,000 ISK or less... Some are 800,000 ISK.
Subtotal:
1,500,000 ISK or less...

Planetary Interaction (PI) materials or planetary commodities cargo Capacity: 45,000 m³
High Slots: 2, cloak (Improved Cloaking Device II - 5,086,998 ISK) and/or salvager (Salvager I - 80,000 ISK or less)
Subtotal:
5,166,998 ISK...

Turret Hardpoints, 1 hardpoints
Signature Radius, 195 m
Maximum Velocity, 120 m/sec

[Epithal, PI Hauler]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II (434,600 ISK)
3x Warp Core Stabilizer I (20,000 ISK or more)
Subtotal:
494,600 ISK
Grand Subtotal:
7,161,598 ISK
...
Fitting the Epithal

Insurance:
Platinum - - 100% - - Cost: 128.625 - - Payout: 428.750
Subtotal:
128,625 ISK.

Command Centers are around 200,000 ISK each.
Subtotal:
200,000 ISK.

Command Centers upgrade costs is:
580,000 ISK
Grand Subtotal:
8,070,223 ISK.
Total:
12,340,223 ISK.

That doesn't include the costs to ship to space or Level 2 Command Center with Structures.

Otherwise,

If not in Hi-Sec
Low end costs:
Skillbooks:
Remote Sensing, 250,000 ISK
Subtotal:
250,000 ISK.

Other Skillbooks:
Customs Code Expertise, 3,000,000 ISK
Trade, 20,000 ISK
Interplanetary Consolidation 500,000 ISK
Command Center Upgrade 500,000 ISK
Planetology, 1,000,000 ISK
Advanced Planetology, 7,500,000 ISK
Subtotal:
12,520m ISK.

Command Centers are around 200,000 ISK each.
Subtotal:
200,000 ISK.
Grand Subtotal:
450,000 ISK.


+ Other costs to install the Planetary Structures
Command Center Properties
Level 1, capacity: 500 m3, CPU Provided: 7,057 tf, Power Provided: 9,000 MW, Upgrade Cost: 580,000 ISK
Level 2, capacity: 500 m3, CPU Provided: 12,136 tf, Power Provided: 12,000 MW, Upgrade Cost: 930,000 ISK
Subtotal:
580,000 ISK + 930,000 ISK = 1,510,000 ISK


  • Extractor Control Unit, CPU Required: 400 tf, Power Required: 2600 MW, Cost: 45,000.00 ISK
    • You need at least one of those to extract anything and generate industrial production from interaction.
    Subtotal:
    45,000.00 ISK.
    CPU and Power Reqs Subtotal:
    400 tf, 2600 MW
  • Extractor Head, CPU Required: 110 tf, Power Required: 550 MW, Cost: 0.00 ISK
    • One of those is also required (from the Extractor Control Unit above) to extract anything and generate industrial production from interaction.
    The more you have up to 8 or 12 per Control Unit, the more you can produce per cycle...
    You need the power and the CPU required though. It is quite easy to overload the Command Center level 1 or 2...
    That does also mean that more costs would be required on those minimal cost.
    Subtotal:
    45,000.00 ISK.
    CPU and Power Reqs Subtotal:
    For 1 Head: 510 tf , 3150 MW - - For 10 Heads:1500 tf/ 7,057 tf, 8100 MW /9,000 MW.
  • Basic Industry Facility, CPU Required: 200 tf, Power Required: 800 MW, Cost: 75,000.00 ISK
    • This may work for the low level items, but even raw material extraction can generate income.
    It depends on the supply and demand.
    Those numbers vary.
    Subtotal:
    120,000 ISK.
  • Storage Facility, CPU Required: 500 tf, Power Required: 700 MW, Cost: 250,000.00 ISK
    • This type of Structure can easily require more than 1 as Storage Units can fill up in less than 1 day.
    If you plan on setting extractions over a 2 day or longer period, you will need more of those Storage.
    Subtotal:
    370,000 ISK.
  • Space Port, CPU Required: 3600 tf, Power Required: 700 MW, Cost: 900,000.00 ISK
    • Useful to send more items to space but verify the cost to make sure it is more cost effective.
    Also, verify what are those costs difference if any.
    It may save on the CPU and Power requirement costs not to have a Space Port.
    It may not be worth to save on those costs depending on what the costs after savings are...
    Subtotal:
    1,270,000 ISK.
    Grand Subtotal:
    2,780,000 ISK.

Added to the previous Total:
12,340,223 ISK.
Grand Total:
14,540,223 ISK.


This "(Jita) Planetary Production for Eve Online by ..." link from the OP has a table of potential profit but I could not verify them yet.
Complex to read and until I can verify the included cost, will be hard for me to use.

I deliberately skipped on the Advanced and High-Tech Industry Facility to find the minimal the costs.
Those 2 other more sophisticated types cost more to manage.

-Post Full- ...to be continued.
(Will complete PI Structure Costs.)
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-02-08 00:25:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Oiras Isimazu
Command Center Properties
Level 1, capacity: 500 m3, CPU Provided: 7,057 tf, Power Provided: 9,000 MW, Upgrade Cost: 580,000 ISK
Level 2, capacity: 500 m3, CPU Provided: 12,136 tf, Power Provided: 12,000 MW, Upgrade Cost: 930,000 ISK

    ...
    Continued from the above post from yesterday.
  • Basic Industry Facility, CPU Required: 200 tf, Power Required: 800 MW, Cost: 75,000.00 ISK
    • This may work for the low level items, but even raw material extraction can generate income.
    It depends on the supply and demand.
    Those numbers vary.
    Subtotal:
    120,000 ISK.
    CPU and Power Reqs Subtotal:
    710 tf, 3950 MW - - 1700 tf / 7,057 tf ; 8900 MW / 9,000 MW

  • Storage Facility, CPU Required: 500 tf, Power Required: 700 MW, Cost: 250,000.00 ISK
    • This type of Structure can easily require more than 1 as Storage Units can fill up in less than 1 day.
    If you plan on setting extractions over a 2 day or longer period, you will need more of those Storage.
    Subtotal:
    370,000 ISK.
    CPU and Power Reqs Subtotal:
    1,210 tf, 4650 MW - - 2,200 tf / 12,136 tf ; 9,600 MW / 12,000 MW (**Level 2 Command Center Required at this point.**)

  • Space Port, CPU Required: 3600 tf, Power Required: 700 MW, Cost: 900,000.00 ISK
    • Useful to send more items to space but verify the cost to make sure it is more cost effective.
    Also, verify what are those costs difference if any.
    It may save on the CPU and Power requirement costs not to have a Space Port.
    It may not be worth to save on those costs depending on what the costs after savings are...
    Subtotal:
    1,270,000 ISK.
    CPU and Power Reqs Subtotal:
    4,810 tf, 5350 MW - - 5,800 tf / 12,136 tf ; 10,300 MW / 12,000 MW

    Grand Subtotal:
    2,780,000 ISK.

Added to the previous Total:
12,340,223 ISK.
Grand Total:
14,540,223 ISK.

Add the Planetary Links costs (ISK, tf and MW)
Link Cost By Distance, I never upgraded those or found benefit from upgrading the Links.
And also verify the 1.5m ISK costs to make sure that the cost is not less than required.
I made a few mistake and it might take me a few days or a few weeks to verify.
I'd have to make a print out and verify offline.
- - -
Edit 03:53:
You must have the Remote Sensing skill to survey
planet resources.
- - -
Edit 04:03:
Planetary Interaction (P.I.) is an industry process that takes raw materials from a planet and turns them into goods available on the market at large. Creating extractors, processors and other parts of the industry involves setting up a command center and investing ISK to set it all up. Like most industries, you must have some skills trained to get started. The Remote Sensing skill allows you to survey planets for areas rich in natural resources. Other skills are necessary for running multiple colonies or running colonies remotely. These skills are available on the market. For more information on getting started with Planetary Interaction, go here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_interaction
- - -
Edit 04:18:
I bought
Customs Code Expertise 3,000,000 ISK (requires Trade IV)
Trade 20,500 ISK
Remote Sensing 250k ISK
Gallente Industrial 300k ISK
Upgraded 1MN Microwarpdrive -cost omitted ISK, but recorded.
Barren Command Center -cost omitted ISK, but recorded.
Interplanetary Consolidation for 500k ISK
- - -
Edit 04:31:
Total: 4,194,500.01 ISK
SP:
Trade
Trade / Rank 1 / Level: 1 / SP: 250 of 1,414

Planet Management
Remote Sensing / Rank 1 / Level: 1 / SP: 250 of 1,414
It works to scan after level 1 by the way. The cursor to move the adjustment also functions.

Training:
Spaceship Command
Gallente Industrial / Rank 4 / Level: 0 / SP: 0 of 1,000 - training to level 1
- - -
Edit 04:54:
Interplanetary Consolidation - Level 1 - 31M 15S
Skill Points: 213 / 1,000
- - -
Edit 04:59:
Command Center Upgrades for 500k ISK + Level 1 - 31M 15S (Charisma - Intelligence)
Total: 4,694,500.01 ISK
- - -
Edit 05:10:
Epithal for 1.5m ISK +/- 175k ISK...
Platinum Insurance cost: 154,913.40 ISK
Value: 516,378.00 ISK.

Experimental 10MN Afterburner for 4,000.00 ISK +/- 100 ISK.
- - - -
Edit 05:24:
You cannot place an item of that type into that
location in your Epithal. The bay you are trying to
access is specialized and can only handle certain
types of items.

i Information
One unit of Barren Command Center would take 1000.00 units of space. This container only has 550.00 units free.
- - -
Edit 05:29:
Expanded Cargohold I
5,000 ISK +/- 500 ISK x 4
= 1,048.4 m^3 - 1 = 892.2 m^3
- - -
Edit 06:04:
Impairor 10,000 ISK +/- 5,000 ISK
Upgraded 1MN Microwarp Drive for 25,000 ISK +/- 5,000 ISK

Player Owned Customs Offices in Highsec now make it worthless for me to PI there, until I can protect the Offices.
I was informed there were many Interbus Customs offices left, and no location.
I was suggested about 3 to 4 systems with no evidence, which is useless for me to verify.
The verification costs alone would waste my profit.

Conclusion:
PI, now useless, and worthless, and an ISK eater compared to more profitable and less costly investments.
You cannot post in 0 seconds.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#24 - 2014-02-10 02:33:31 UTC
LOL, What you've effectively come to is that Mining in a Venture with one Mining Laser and no upgrades is useless and worthless. (PI to Mining Comparison)

PI has alot of upfront costs but once it is running it has very little costs.
Also if you are going to stay in HS try looking for RvB/Goonswarm POCOs I believe that they were going to put 5% tax on them, which is quite low a tax. Or go for a roam around LS to get some half decent planets, or even move into NS/WH space for decent PI.
Also like mining, try looking more than 4 Jumps from Major trade hubs :)
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-02-10 15:28:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Oiras Isimazu
Caldari 5 wrote:
LOL, What you've effectively come to is that Mining in a Venture with one Mining Laser and no upgrades is useless and worthless. (PI to Mining Comparison)

PI has alot of upfront costs but once it is running it has very little costs.
Also if you are going to stay in HS try looking for RvB/Goonswarm POCOs I believe that they were going to put 5% tax on them, which is quite low a tax. Or go for a roam around LS to get some half decent planets, or even move into NS/WH space for decent PI.
Also like mining, try looking more than 4 Jumps from Major trade hubs :)

The first part about Venture mining with 1 laser is just nonsense.
I have an Orca pilot with a Mining Foreman Mindlink and Mining Director V + 2 Retriever or other.
You were more trying to laugh at my own expense.
Or perhaps analyse the color of my tears per 6 million of colors or higher res, you are getting hot.

Quote:
"PI has alot of upfront costs but once it is running it has very little costs."
Yes, and I wrote those minimal costs paid for and without even asking for any loans.
Once it is running you have the launching cost and modification costs if you change anything.

Quote:
"Also if you are going to stay in HS try looking for RvB/Goonswarm POCOs I believe that they were going to put 5% tax on them, which is quite low a tax."
I was told that there was no restriction on exporting PI Commodities through Customs on Hisec POCOs.
Again, I didn't have the time to verify this.
I didn't have the time to find out how much it would cost me and will cost me to find out.
Perhaps the Customs Code Expertise is useless on POCOs ... (Still to verify)

On my post #22 if this thread I wrote:
Also, Customs Code Expertise requires Trade IV, which I only trained to 2...
Notes: Only affects NPC tax rate. NPC tax rate only exists in high security space and InterBus-owned Customs Offices.
...
+
If PI in Hi-Sec, then Customs Code Expertise after Trade IV is almost necessary.
(Hi-sec PI is the only type I did so far, my last command center getting looted in null).

Battle Clinic Customs Code Expertise states:
Expertise in cutting through the red tape of customs regulations. Reduces Import and Export empire tax in Customs Offices by 10% per level.

This does not affect InterBus Customs Offices.

Attributes:
Empire Tax Modifier -10 %

Listed as:
© BattleClinic.com 2002-2014 All rights reserved with no other publication dates so far.
I can't verify the date of publication to compare if it was before any changes.

- I don't know if that means that the tax on InterBus Customs Offices is not affected.
It would be hard to verify since there is a very small number of possibly remaining InterBus Customs Offices.
it doesn't state it is only in Highsec in the description.

Anyways, I was told it was possible to have PI in Highsec and that POCOs would not make it impossible to export.
That would mean that yes, it is possible to generate income on valuable resources.
Of course, there should always be some that are less valuable than others or that fluctuate.

Quote:
"Or go for a roam around LS to get some half decent planets, or even move into NS/WH space for decent PI."
I did, I completed a LS mission which gave me quite a lot of LP compared to other missions.
I then tried to do a nice LS anomaly, which also worked great.
The first one didn't give me much worth though, I was able to do it with little sratch.

I then went back, and tried to do a higher level one, Blood Yard, and could barely kill an NPC Pirate ship.
I returned my 5 Drones to the Drone Bay and looked for repair, my hull being down to 50%.
I had an Armor Repairer but couldn't fix much at the rate I was going.

My error on that roam lied mainly in 2 factors, the first is not being in LS.
Although you suggest to go for a roam in LS, I should get a Leader with Links.
It would boost my fleet and give a better counter-attack power to LS pirate skirmishes.
I got killed by 3 red pirates, 2 of which were at 16 km from me.
I was 12 km from the gate without breaking gate cloak.
I tried to aim for a space point but got destroyed before.
All it took was 2 or 3 hits against my weak hull.
Even the scrambler they got on my worked to my advantage as it gave me an extra second.
I had a slow ship though but I didn't turn on the 10MN MWD.

The second mistake was to try to go repair to a LS station one jump away from the LS system.
The other option that would have most surely saved me 10m or 20m with fitting equip was:
- Go repair to a HighSec station 2 jumps away, instead of getting deeped into LS of course.

It already was a miracle that pirate didn't call me out before with at least 10 to 15 Locals at all time.
It is very easy to D-scan and intel the local data to nearby pirate, or log them in for the kill.

"...or even move into NS/WH space for decent PI."
I am in NS and never tried WH yet.
However, I could never put a Command Center on an NS planet yet since it got destroyed.
I don't remember if it got bubbled or other, but there was definite attacks.

And that was only on the way in to place that Command Center.
That doesn't include going back to try to drop the PI Commodities in station for trade.
It is possible that my NS PI point is a planet with no Station nearby.
I could organize to install one but it is pointless if it is going to be destroyed.
You should also realize that those don't come free, and the cost would go against profit margin.


Quote:
"Also like mining, try looking more than 4 Jumps from Major trade hubs :)"
I do most mining more than 4 jumps away from Major Trade hubs.
The optimum price isn't always at those Major Trade hubs.

-=- Post Full -=-
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-02-10 15:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Oiras Isimazu
Wednesday, October 2, 2013
Highsec Customs office revisited

There have been some updates on highsec Corporate Owned Customs Offices : otherwise misnamed POCO (player owned customs offices), but I assume COCO sounds like a fashion designer or maybe a misspelling of certain drinks and food.

  • Highsec POCO can only be attacked while at war.
  • Highsec POCO can not be transferred while at war, or with war pending.
  • Base rate reduction to PI, reducing tax. This ranges from 11% for advanced commodities to 20% for basic and refined.
  • Highsec POCO to still have NPC tax, with the new Customs Code Expertise skill enabling a NPC tax reduction from 10% to 5% on base rates.

This publication above seems more accurate but again, I didn't have the time to verify any of it yet.


Edit:
There is a link to:
SHOULD HAVE SEEN THAT COMING
Which I also can't read at this time.


Character Bazaar remain the trading activity of choice for me still offering a potential 100% to 400% yield on Investment.
Override all and any other time limiting activities except for the 30 days minimum Active time cost.
That also limits the trading to 2 character limit with the transfer restriction and times limits.

However, the rates on those numbers are more than favorable and 2x more positive compared to negative returns.
In fact, any other activity leads to financial demise for me.
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-02-20 17:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Oiras Isimazu
I've set up an almost lowest possible level PI on a barren planet.

The command center is full at 50,000 or 500 units.
I forgot to verify which of the 2 exactly is full.
That was with only one Extractor Head albeit a little larger than minimum diameter, the cost is the same if wider.

I don't have the screenshots to verify.

I'll soon know if it costs more to export than to create and sell.
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-03-18 14:45:26 UTC
The first production cycle ended with 1 Extractor Head.
I took screenshot, which I may try to verify later on...

The Command Center content was launched but it seems to have been taken 4 days to reach the Customs office.

The value however was incredibly high for my costs.
I don't know the cost of the Customs office to remove anything.

I believe the content was worth around 10 times my costs.


2.
I then managed to start the 2nd cycle with the same 1 Extractor Head.
This should fill the Command Center again, at around 500m 3.

The volume and amounts of units fields may have gotten mixed up in the last post.
I will not take the time to verify as it could be over 1 hour.

It seems that I could increase the number of Extractor Heads to the maximum amounts without additional costs.
It seems that it is the same price and the other heads costs 0.


3.
My time is almost over so I won't have time to verify the process details.
The system may even change again until I can verify.
Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-05-13 16:08:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lar Tadaruwa
Not much change except that I couldn't verify the Customs Office exact tax rate.
I didn't sell any of the products launched either yet.

Edit :
Upgrading Hauler and Blop.

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Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-06-03 14:04:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Lar Tadaruwa
Lar Tadaruwa wrote:
Upgrading Hauler and Blop.

I will try to upgrade the Blop to minimum PI skills to earn extra income.

I don't know why the hauler is learning Gunnery IV. I really don't think that I chose that skill.
(I read it's required for Surgical Strike and Trajectory Analysis.)

Other than that, I will be too busy with other work and urgent pressing matters.
Probably registering copyright to protect my work and record some attacks against it, data gathering.


Edit:
Just got a new job which means I have more time...

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Lar Tadaruwa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-06-21 14:10:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lar Tadaruwa
1 hour on a Lava Planet with 1 Lava Command Center.
Other costs, 1 Nereus, Gallente Transport ship.

Yielded 29.48% of the Lava Command Centre 9S-DU5 capacity.
Capacity
214.1 / 500 m^3

Next Launch Time:
Now

Next Transfer Available:
Now

With 5 Extractor Heads = CPU: 58.03% ; 972 / 1675.00 tf

Power : 89.42%
5365 / 6000.00 MW

Upgrade Level
1



Extraction area size
updated to
2 days and 8 hours (from 1 hour)
(although it should be extraction time frame.)

Cycle 1
17108 units per hour.

Cycle 56
4153 units
Accumulated:
463208 units
2d 8h 0m
8271 units per hour



Launch cost: 16,059.00 ISK
Type: Non-CS Crystals
Quantity: 21412.0

[Go For Launch] [Scrub Launch]
After Scrubbed
Payload is empty.



Edit @ 14:36:
Buyers:
from eve-marketdata.com
http://eve-marketdata.com/price_check.php?step=Show&type_id=2306&region_id=&solarsystem_id=&type=buy
Location - - - - - - - - - Remaining - - Price - - -Range - - - Updated - - - Distance from
0.9 The Forge - Jita 71,817,597 4.83ISK Solarsystem 1 hour ago
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2 hours ago - - - 2

http://imgur.com/K3FcQUm


21412 units (volume 214.12)
+ 9214 in the Lava Extractor Control Unit - Routed
x 4.83 ISK =
30626 x 4.83 ISK =
147,923.58 ISK -
(partial) Launch cost: 16,059.00 ISK
= 77,564.97 profit

Add Customs Office cost with that which requires Trade IV.


-=-=-
Edit 2 @ 18:21:
Started a 2nd planet with Gas to extract Ionic Solutions
http://imgur.com/210onvE,Txwq70F

17:39 Gas Command Centre 91,499.98 ISK
17:46 Planetary Construction 45,000 ISK
built on Iyen-Oursta VI (Gas)
There may be no extractor head costs after all.
(I thought there was.)


-=-=-
Edit 3 @ 18:38:
2014.06.21.18.23.35

After verification, it seems the only Head-extractor costs are the Power and CPU.


-=-=-
Edit 4 @ 04:25:
I did a planetary launch from the Lava planet but, it seems to take 4 days + to complete.
http://imgur.com/w2zs7I4,GQJpeTJ,9ZEjRZO,jH7nMj1


-=-=-
Edit 5:
However, it didn't take 4 days and it would have lasted 4 days.
There is a container which is launched in orbit to grab.
Open the Journal > Planetary Launch tab and right click Warp to location of the planet launch in question.

The warp takes you to 2,5nn metres away from the container.
All you have to do is move toward it to pick it up.

I guess the Customs Office serves to leave items to be brought down on the planet.
I don't think I had to pay 15% tax on those last launches.

Actually the Planetary Export tax is 37,500.00 ISK for one and 37,499.25 ISK for the other.

http://imgur.com/NKKuqzx,vneUyKM,dR6BkBA,X1uAArb,eMlBenO,q1W7GG6,siu37fy,d3YXqtb,okCthLz,5KzTyve#1

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Gorr Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#32 - 2014-06-24 08:56:54 UTC
Start a damned blog already!

inb4threadlock
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