EVE General Discussion

I have the best part of 3b in ihub (ihub itself belongs to pblrd but it still has to be there), arrays, poses, pi installations etc, it required a freighter and jump freighter to setup, requires a jumpfreighter service to operate time effectively and its all inspace stuff that can be shot and the 1.5B first months rent was upfront too. its by no means a trivial investment to get going here.

I could perhaps relay the emotion of scooping 250m isk of TEST and EMP drones from around a couple of billion isk of reinforced ihub and arrays, but that fortunately was *next door* where I did that, and not mine. Mine was SBU'd but they obviously got interrupted by my landlords and didn't finish the job, and then they lost a battle over another timer and lost sufficient capitals to contest further timers in Vale, but that was all out of my control.



5 belt system of truesec -0.17. A vexor can empty a 5 belt null system of NPCs.

I am the only person with installations on the planets at the moment. The 3 extract, 1 factory is what after hours and hours of reading all the PI information it turned out my planets were amenable to. The effort required is not particularly greater than importing fuel and exporting goo - ie I set it up with sufficient buffers that I don't have to move stuff to the factory regularly.

If you were keen on using all 3 characters on an account, I'm sure you can make it 45m a day, but I'm also sure that the mucking around with characters and the extra hauls etc will start making it take half an hour a day on average and thus more or less exchangeable with ratting. The reuse your ratting character thing is best way imo to turn PI into sugar (and the main haul is free because its alternated against hauling fuel for a POS I had to own anyway, if I start needing to haul more PI than fuel, then I start making empty trips in the opposite direction).

In the medium term I am certainly continuing to explore other nullsec systems vs the PBLRD/BOT/NA rental agreements (which don't factor PI), but what i'm suggesting is that in the 30% or so all null systems that are lowband, not very many of them actually make good corp bases vs just doing the same thing in highsec, so even with a selection of many free systems, you may find it hard to genuinely base an actual corp with many actual people in it.

Yes I freely admit my system is enjoyable and very profitable to operate solo.

I'm not sure highsec needs to be "nerfed".

I'ts pretty boring really. Jump between mission systems, accept the good ones decline the bad. Rinse, repeat.

Spend enough time at it, and have sets of ships/mods/ammo in each station so you can shuttle/inty it around for "efficiency" purposes and cherry-pick missions. It's excruciatingly boring.

I remember spending months in WH space, travelling around doing a little PvE and avoiding PvP with my low-skilled pilot. Running out of sites in Hurricanes, logging off in safes, generally being stuck and ****** in higher class sites but still working my way around because it was an adventure. Almost 3 months on my own in WH space, and every day was an adventure. Burning into low armor out of the last WH to the exit, only to find myself a few jumps from where it all started.

Got bored of hisec once again, trained up an Ishtar, and went to local lowsec to run combat sites. Every time I jumped the gate into Parts or OMS, it got interesting. Watching local, cheap-fitting ships to run a site or two then haul ass...so much more interesting than highsec missions. Get in, get out, get paid, don't get killed. Learn the quiet times in those systems, scan and run the sites, haul ass out. Adrenaline running, more fun than memorizing EveSurvival. You can, and WILL, get shot in the face.

TL:DR - Highsec might not need a nerf. It gets boring and it gets boring fast. Lowsec needs some love. If that's the natural progression, then make it interesting enough for carebears to venture into. I went for adventure and profit, alone, with no alts.

I also had (and continue to have) an extraordinary time. When you're one jump off from getting shot in the face from highsec, I think your doing "highsec right". With lots of systems and trade hubs close to "pee vee pee" there's really no reason not to.

A little adrenaline, a littte incentive, and either spoils or ruins for the carebear in all of us.

Highsec doesn't need a nerf per say. An easier way for people to transition to WH, Low, Null could probably be looked at. As that is all player-driven content, it really doesn't seem like a CCP problem.

To what extent? Not a troll, but a serious inquiry.

you've never pvp'ed before and can't read a killboard.

Good point(s).

So what's my motivation to get out of carebear land?

Yeah, its boring as **** all. I can fly anything Matari but command ships...just need training time and I can fly everyone's carriers and dreads.

I read Jester's blog and TMC regularly. Caps up for IT ONLY TOOK ME X AMOUNT OF YEARS TO FIGURE OUT EVE ONLINE.

So many Rifters burned, so, so many.

What's the next logical step? I'm almost a 100m sp pilot, I ate **** for the first 2 years of EvE. How does one go from whoring lvl 4 missions to null sec? If it makes a difference, I have Logit V :burritos:

Nope, don't want to fly a Titan or SC, just have more fun.

Where CCP has failed is explaining that jump from me, to you, in player terms.

Mind you, I could certainly poke holes in the statement that the data "proves high sec reward need to be nerfed."

Some criticisms:
-It would be good to see actual comparisons, say Ishtar running anoms vs. T2 fit Raven running level 4s
-It would be good to see how the ishtar isk/hr varies with true sec
-I think a comparison needs to be made between running PVE with high end ships e.g. faction BS and Carriers
~~Specifically: I'd like to see how a Carrier + Evac Cyno fares compared to a Machariel/Vindicator + noctis or something along those lines. This comparison, I think, will not go in favor of the "nerf hisec" crowd. This would be a good comparison of the "high end" income for both types of space.
-The level 4's used for comparison should be both SoE and non-SoE, as CCP devs have expressed an interest in reducing SoE payouts through various means.

If you want to make a convincing data set, it should, after all, be reasonably complete.

I've been comparing to what Stoicfaux did in highsec I'll try and find a link for you. The carrier thing someone else can do, I don't need to be feeding this blops gang any encouragement.

-T2 raven vs ishtar.....iffy, the raven is a good deal slower due to no having the alpha of a CNR or Golem. That extra cycle to kill cruisers costs you 4 seconds per cruiser, which can add up RAPIDLY. Production with a vanilla raven is about 60 percent of a CNR or Golem.

-True Sec has more effect on belt ratting (clearing for faction spawns) than it does anomalies, and anom is an anom basically and from -1.0 to -0.7 to -0.5 has next to no difference on escalation rates in my experience.

-While I'm NOT going to spreadsheet with a carrier/pirate **** (I own both in variety) in Fountain...no way, no how in -0.7 serp space you are looking at 13-16 ishtar, 18-22 fighter carrier, 22-25 AC Machariel (slightly higher in Angle Space) 26-30 sentry carrier (archon or thanny) 30-33 3bill Vindi......maruader need not apply in my space rooting down for a minute at a time is suicide.

All values per tick, and NOT counting interuptions, and the longer your sample the longer you are going to have spinning in station or POS'd up because as kill counts go up so do people looking for the ratters driving the kill counts.

Oh and CCP expressed the reducing SOE SHIP prices....something about 120 pages of us beating up Rise over the Nestor, SOE LP exchange will remain high as it has been for years because of probes, launchers, and virtue sets.

Hardly, with a 20mil SP Golem pilot I can basically park on the button in a blockade and full trigger, with furies I cut the DPS down JUST fast enough to maintain tank. This allows full clears within bounty ticks, full clears on Damsel and Gone Berserk are sub 15 minutes.

Doesn't take much tank to make a marauder preform, mine is a little blinged but only the hardeners (30mil a pop) and BCSs are actually faction.....no deadspace at all. The module fit is in the 300mil range.

Forcing full clears will drive up the value of LP, exacerbating the problem as all mission-runners get a boost to their ISK because the blitzers aren't applying downward pressure to LP value.

Random triggers is one idea that could slow down blitzing, but then you're running into the LP value control problem.

The solution to LP value spiralling out of control is to put an external pressure onto it. You do this by providing more avenues than LP store for items currently found in LP stores. One idea I had was to allow players to manufacture the fancy stuff. Thus you keep the LP stores as a control on the ceiling price of items. Another option was to allow players to buy a specific faction LP store to add to their station, with an alliance-specific ESS deployed to convert ISK bounties to LP for that specific store.

Thus it would be null- and low-sec players that provide the nerf to hi sec incomes, rather than relying on the developers to keep twiddling the dials and hoping nothing blows up.