EVE General Discussion

I searched your posts you referenced nothing. Citation needed.

Other individual income streams:

• Planetary Interaction (how does null sec compare to high sec? I'm betting it's at least an order of magnitude better)
• Exploration
• Belt ratting (you have fleets of battleships and cruisers in null sec belts, hi sec gets frigates, and hauler spawns that drop a few thousand tritanium)

This is one of those things I was talking about earlier: it's not the numbers in the spreadsheet that I'm disputing, it's what you've chosen to model in the spreadsheet. There are other income streams available, choosing to balance PVE income in high sec and low sec is a fool's gambit.

From my limited perspective, the hard part about balancing this area of game design is ensuring that rewards can scale to the number of players expected in any particular system, constellation or region, without injecting a flood of currency-style items into the game.

We could go a long way towards making null sec PVE income more rewarding by eliminating NPC drops of assembled modules entirely. NPCs should only drop scraps which can then be used to invent or reverse-engineer specific items. This would also apply for exploration sites, where you could collect data fragments that are converted by an R&D agent into data cores by starting a research project (higher level agents being able to handle more data fragments at a time, producing more data cores per week).

None of this is about risk versus reward. It is about finding things for players to do which encourage other players to interfere: this is what "farms and fields" is about. If you want to reverse engineer an officer's modified module, you'll need infrastructure to achieve that with. We already have moon harvesters, reactors and CSAAs which can only be anchored under certain conditions. Invention and reverse engineering are already activities we can do in-game.

The next step for me would be a meaningful EVE-DUST-EVE link where capsuleers commission DUST Bunnies to capture some "extracted subroutines" which are then transferred to a planet-based implant manufacturing structure. Then the DUST Bunnies have a structure to fight over which contains valuables: they can choose to destroy the plant or capture the manufactured implant (which can then be sold on the market).

This seems much more interesting to me than simply boosting bounties on NPC rats and complaining about ISK/hr inequality between hi sec and null sec.

Bickering about ISK/hr bounties is like two prisoners arguing about who owns which half of a puddle of water in the exercise yard, while the prison wall behind them is crumbling and a little coordination between the two could break it down.

Note that few were calling for another bandaid.......personally it requires a real paradigm shift in the way the various security spaces function and interact.

Basically nothing that I see happening ANYTIME in the forseeable future. Hell, they never actually completed a fraction of the changes the intended for Dominion, so we dealing with generation upon generation of bandaids and knee-jerks that are to the point that scrapping the system and starting over would be justified.

This is entirely about risk : reward and it is not the same as farms and fields. Farms and fields is about encouraging bottom up income and having it be based around some sort of advantage of investing in your space. So that its meaningful if people "salt the earth and burn the peasants." Balancing it between sec areas is very possible especially when it comes to PVE there are literal numbers that can be adjusted. When it comes to the market I agree with you it exists separate from the sec areas and can't be balanced with respect to them.

Sure new features would be interesting I agree with that but, I also want old problems like this one fixed. The other individual income streams can be adjusted so that they too follow the Null/WH > lowsec > highsec. I haven't done any research on them and we already have an example of a proven imbalance that needs to be addressed.

The actual sugar in nullsec systems is the signatures. Trust me on that. In 5 months, the gurista troop reinvigoration camp has spawned 11 times, and paid 51x11 in boxes, and > 6b isk in loot. And before people moan gurista troop reinvig spawns in lowsec as well, and before people moan, angels, serps don't have a ded 6.

Belt ratting for my system (5 belts), was approximately 7mil isk/hr. I had to laboriously do that for days to get the initial pop to military 1.

I run a 4 planet PI system, it pays out 13m / day, for no effort. You could choose to start moving around to do PI, or get a better PI oriented system, but P3 and export is what my particular planets are amenable to. I had to personally install 2 pocos, so I'll leave it up to you to figure out how long it takes just to zero out pocos.

I run a moon, it pays about 13m a day.

For comparison, I own about 6b of BPOs for hulls, and if I was running missions in Osmon, I can babysit mineral and hull orders in jita since its the same region and thus my baseline income would be 250m a day, not 26m a day and the only thing I'd have to do is get redfrog to move stuff by pipelining sensibly.

What's "band-aid" about changing the nature of the EVE economy at a fundamental level?

With implants becoming manufactured by players, what happens to the LP store implant value?

With high-meta items being manufactured by players, what happens to the LP store high-meta item value?

The NPC economy becomes a back-stop to prevent the economy falling apart: if it becomes too expensive to manufacture Low Grade Virtue implants, the mission-runners get back into the action.

Nothing in hi sec needs to be nerfed. Just add to the options in low and null. You don't have to make anything already existing in null sec more valuable (i.e.: just forget ISK/hr whining), you add new options for making ISK which everyone has the opportunity to participate in. Then because it's a PvP world, you ensure that the ISK-making can be disrupted by other players.

You don't have to change anything about the LP stores in hi sec to reduce their value. You just add a competing product which is a player-controlled market. The DUST players get to decide how much the extracted subroutines are worth. The capsuleers get to decide how much the process of shoving extracted subroutines inside transcranial micro controllers is worth.

If a capsuleer wants more income than is afforded by the braindead activity of shooting red crosses, they can get involved in the activities which pay them enough ISK to keep them interested: PI, meta-item invention, implant manufacture, and whatever else comes along.

If you introduce new industries, the potential income from hi sec LP stores will be reduced in turn. Why shouldn't hi sec income nerfing come from low & null sec activity, rather than requiring the debs to fiddle numbers that don't need to be fiddled?

If you want more income in null sec, do the stuff that produces more ISK in null sec. It's up to the devs to provide more options that allow the individual pilot to take action and increase their worth.

While that is an interesting approach, its something that I don't think is feasible because of CCP development. They've promised us a lot and delivered not so much. Do ring mining and a POS revamp bring up any memories? Its vastly easier for them to adjust the reward numbers in whatever database they are stored in. I was trying to be realistic with my approach.

Ideally I do like that idea that nullsec actions have a greater influence over highsec through industry or other ways.

Found the problem.

Star Citizen is vaporware at this point.

....and I will never give blizzard another penny.


/edit
Actually, let me expound on this.


HELL YES.

Let me tell a little story about my eve.

With in a month into the game from trialI was flying in an Incursis (WAY before they were good) chasing pirates around low sec. That only lasted so long before I bored of the CONSTANT hunting, seriously it was pretty difficult to get a damn fight once a week there was a brawl, it may have been 5 on ten or what not...but it was a grind.

So yapping with a buddy that was in my allaince for a while and moved on he mentioned that "If I had the time I could be fleeted and fighting 24/7 in null." Damned if he wasn't dead balls acurate, I joined -A- in the middle of a full on clusterfuck. PL, NC., White Noise, and RA ALL invading, FR4 in NC. hands GE- in PL's and HED in WNs, sure enough, what I found was low sec with the volume turned WAY up and 20mil SP, small gangs from 10-30 running two-three at a time, CTAs that involved 6-7 150 man fleets for various entities, all killer no filler.

Only issue, iskies. I had my main and a utility alt at the time, but moving to null and the constant doctine shifting meant that my 3-4 bill only lasted about 6 weeks....SRP and all... before I need to isk up, and seriously isk up when I had to look at a T2 logi as a "low cost" loss. So we made more alts, market toons, PI toons, my mains, being that this toon and another that I control are pretty much tied at the hip.

I had a carebear buddy in my corp, we talked leadership into letting us set up one of the systems that we controled as a corp carebear haven vice renting it......4 regions deep into null, dead end pocket, -0.7 sec fully upgraded.....this is where I learned null's PvE capabilities.....and it was equal to what a 20mil SP toon with a mach and a vangaurd fleet pulled in high sec...the only bonus being the rare 10/10 escalation....that requires three ships to run in any sort of acceptable time.

four if you counted the carrier to move them.

PvE is boring.

Jumping into 3WE- TFI, no capacitor from burning through bubble, capitals on field on the other side of the gate THAT is exciting. Sitting in your triage carrier waiting to jump into a clusterfuck grid to save a super THAT is exciting. Little else compares to me eve.

***** about TiDi if you will, but the servers didn't really handle 600 man systems when I moved to null, the 4200 in 6VDT was jaw dropping to me.

Citation needed.