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How honestly hard is it to create missile launcher models that use turret hardpoints?

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Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#1 - 2011-11-26 09:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Frayn
And make missiles fly out of the launchers instead of the middle of the ship? I really want to know. Why can't you guys make this happen? Sad
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-11-26 10:00:16 UTC
They're just as bad as you are.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#3 - 2011-11-26 10:01:47 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
What the guy before me said and I believe its quite hard to do. They probably would have done it by now if it was easy.
Alexandros Balfros
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#4 - 2011-11-26 10:10:08 UTC
Arthur Frayn wrote:
And make missiles fly out of the launchers instead of the middle of the ship? I really want to know. Why can't you guys make this happen? Sad


Because doing that would break the reason missile grouping exists in the first place :)

Also it qould require adding turret mounts to ships that don't have enough turret mounts in the first place due to being missile platforms :)
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#5 - 2011-11-26 10:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Frayn
Alexandros Balfros wrote:
Because doing that would break the reason missile grouping exists in the first place :)

U trollin? It'd make grouped missiles look awesome. Instead of one big missile appearing from your ship, you'd see a whole cluster fire and fly to the target. That would rock.


Alexandros Balfros wrote:
Also it qould require adding turret mounts to ships that don't have enough turret mounts in the first place due to being missile platforms :)

Oh shìt, what a horrible inconvenience for a graphics team that are remodelling many ships anyway. Roll
Alexandros Balfros
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#6 - 2011-11-26 10:21:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexandros Balfros
double post
Alexandros Balfros
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#7 - 2011-11-26 10:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexandros Balfros
Alexandros Balfros wrote:
Arthur Frayn wrote:
Alexandros Balfros wrote:
Because doing that would break the reason missile grouping exists in the first place :)

U trollin? It'd make grouped missiles look awesome. Instead of one big missile appearing from your ship, you'd see a whole cluster fire and fly to the target. That would rock.


Yup but it would still need each missile to be spawned meaning the performance gains made by grouping missiles would be lost, as cool as it would look its not worth having the added lag back from them :)


Arthur Frayn wrote:
Oh shìt, what a horrible inconvenience for a graphics team that are remodelling many ships anyway. Roll


You assume the modellers are the same people who work on textures, you know they don't "have" to be the same guys ;)
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution
#8 - 2011-11-26 10:24:09 UTC
you're right... which is why I've never complained. I'd like to see launchers also, but the lag wouldn't be worth it.

All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE
#9 - 2011-11-26 10:27:25 UTC
Alexandros Balfros wrote:
Yup but it would still need each missile to be spawned meaning the performance gains made by grouping missiles would be lost, as cool as it would look its not worth having the added lag back from them :)

It's worth it to me!


Alexandros Balfros wrote:
You assume the modellers are the same people who work on textures, you know they don't "have" to be the same guys ;)

I saw the guy working on the new Raven model in the Eve video. He didn't look overworked or stressed. In fact, he looked quite cheerful, which means he's probably not being given enough work to do.
ASadOldGit
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-11-26 11:02:02 UTC
Alexandros Balfros wrote:
Alexandros Balfros wrote:
Arthur Frayn wrote:
Alexandros Balfros wrote:
Because doing that would break the reason missile grouping exists in the first place :)

U trollin? It'd make grouped missiles look awesome. Instead of one big missile appearing from your ship, you'd see a whole cluster fire and fly to the target. That would rock.


Yup but it would still need each missile to be spawned meaning the performance gains made by grouping missiles would be lost, as cool as it would look its not worth having the added lag back from them :)

They don't have to stay separate, though. Once they're far enough away to merge visually, they could merge as far as the server is concerned. Or, the individual missiles could be purely a client visual effect, but the server still treats them as one object.

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Raven Ether
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-11-26 11:02:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Raven Ether
This should be a high priority for CCP Art.

and yeah, I'm pretty sure they can come up with a smart system to handle the extra objects, what the server thinks and what the client renders don't have to be the same.
Alexandros Balfros
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#12 - 2011-11-26 11:16:28 UTC
Arthur Frayn wrote:
Alexandros Balfros wrote:
Yup but it would still need each missile to be spawned meaning the performance gains made by grouping missiles would be lost, as cool as it would look its not worth having the added lag back from them :)

It's worth it to me!


Yup but its not worth it to the other people who have to suffer because of something you want, needs of the many and all :)

@ASadOldGit

They would have to stay seperate you can't have multiple things just merging in to one on the server when they are spawned as a singular they die as a singular, imagine the potential bugs should the code not merge them properly during lag, you could end up with no missile damage at all or worse double the damage, too many potential issues :)


@Raven Ether

The problem here is sure you could have a graphical effect to replace the single missile with a swarm but there are too many combinations, would mean you would need to have a seperate effect for each possible combination of missiles which would take up a stupid amount of time to create and bugtest, it really wouldn't be worth it :)
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-11-26 11:37:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
Arthur Frayn wrote:
And make missiles fly out of the launchers instead of the middle of the ship? I really want to know. Why can't you guys make this happen? Sad


1) Learn to Google. Or use Eve-search on the forums. This question has been answered multiple times by CCP on the old forums and lots of people have repeated it.

2) Answer, paraphrased:

To make missile turrets requires a few things:

  • Massive modifications to Destiny, the EVE Physics engine. Which is notoriously fragile and CCP hate going near it due to its tendency to turn insane before committing suicide even with inconsequential changes.
  • Two versions of the above so as to test to see what functions correctly and what looks acceptable (missiles spawning from multiple fixed points and curving to the target is one, the other is spawing from actual rotating turrets which are roughly pointing in the right direction).
  • Redesigning and remodelling every single ship that has a missile hardpoint.
  • Creation of said missile turret assets if they're not firing from static ports.


In short, your "simple" idea is actually a metric shitton of work for multiple teams at CCP, whose time is better spent actually working on game mechanics and content rather then just modifying and system which already works (if it ain't broke....).

Did I mention they also really loathe touching Destiny?
CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#14 - 2011-11-26 11:43:54 UTC
This is something we are going to look at in the next release planning to see if it is viable. From what I understand there is an issue with miniballs and launchers which makes doing this extremely difficult. So while this is something we would really like to do we will need to investigate it thoroughly before any commitment is made for the future.
Sirius Cassiopeiae
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2011-11-26 11:50:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sirius Cassiopeiae
CCP Navigator wrote:
This is something we are going to look at in the next release planning to see if it is viable. From what I understand there is an issue with miniballs and launchers which makes doing this extremely difficult. So while this is something we would really like to do we will need to investigate it thoroughly before any commitment is made for the future.


DOOOOOOO ITTTTTTTTT!!! Attention
You are making all ships look good, and sky look good, and turrets look good, and then when you see missile ship it all is ruined...
This is first problem you must solve if you want to EVE look good... then you can work on other things to improve...
But missiles are the base... base which EVE don't have for years and years...

EDIT:
lol... pew-pew space ship game without pew-pew guns on ships... Roll
that's not so pew-pew then...
ASadOldGit
Doomheim
#16 - 2011-11-26 12:00:09 UTC
If Destiny really is that fragile, it sounds like it would be a worthwhile investment reworking it (or completely rebuilding it) into something that can be easily adjusted / enhanced over time. Is there an off-the-shelf physics engine that could be bought and adjusted, or is it "simpler" to build one from scratch?

(I realise it would be a significant investment, taking a good year or two to get it working. Can something modular be designed?)

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Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#17 - 2011-11-26 12:00:56 UTC
So, you're gna wait HOW LONG after you had the brilliant idea to redo ALL the turrets?

One woulda thunk that this would have been something yall "investigated thoroughly" when they were redesigning every single turret, (and in some cases building turret from scratch, just like, maybe missiles?) and not a year after releasing a new turret for everything except missiles...

Yall need to get your priorities figured out.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-11-26 12:26:05 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
So, you're gna wait HOW LONG after you had the brilliant idea to redo ALL the turrets?

One woulda thunk that this would have been something yall "investigated thoroughly" when they were redesigning every single turret, (and in some cases building turret from scratch, just like, maybe missiles?) and not a year after releasing a new turret for everything except missiles...

Yall need to get your priorities figured out.


They probably did.

The question you've missed on their thinking would be: "Why spend time and money on assets (3d missile launcher turrets) which can't currently, and potentially never can be, used?".

CCP have already said that the replacement gun turrets got done because it was simple art asset replacement, and barring the small coding to run the animations (popping up), then it was a nearly straight and easy swap.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-11-26 12:30:49 UTC

EMO !
Captain Megadeath
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2011-11-26 12:38:52 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:


Yall need to get your priorities figured out.


Not sure if Serios.........
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