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Idle Queue's
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Bagger Mourahn
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2014-02-04 21:39:40 UTC
@ Jetstream, I understand what you are saying but an extended skill queue promotes inactivity, especially to new players. The idea I've put forward is targeted specifically at people with your situation, your gain is much less than if you kept up with the your skill queue, but enough that you don't feel you've lost as much.
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#22 - 2014-02-04 21:52:52 UTC
Dun'Gal wrote:
Perhaps you should take a second and read what's already been written here to see why an extension of the skill queue is bad. Though I'm not sure you will see the logic knowing you think adding +50 Implants to the game is also a worthy suggestion. (Yes I see you amended that thought to be only +10) The point is you seem to think that you should have full benefit and not be punished for not keeping up with your skill training. When the opposite should be true, you SHOULD be punished for not keeping up with the skill queue/not logging in. The OP has simply suggested that you should get slightly more than nothing if you forget or are unable to plugin a skill.


I will look for those aforementioned past threads to see the logic of not extending the skill queue so that I can get a better understanding of the situation. But first. Seriously? You say you should be punished for NOT keeping up with the skill queue, then you say that its a "good idea" to get a little something for nothing when your queue runs dry. Are you trolling me, just being argumentative, or not reading your own post? My +50 implants comment was drool but intended to be humerus, I see that I have to edit that post to avoid confusion by certain people.
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#23 - 2014-02-04 22:14:36 UTC
JetStream Drenard wrote:
I will look for those aforementioned past threads to see the logic of not extending the skill queue so that I can get a better understanding of the situation.


I will save you a little time on that and repost one of the reasons this is a bad idea, which was already mentioned in this thread.
Bagger Mourahn wrote:
An extended skill queue promotes the notion that you do not need to log in while still being a very young pilot. Imagine as a new pilot plugging in a weeks worth of skills, it's likely in this situation that a) this new pilot is just going to plug in whatever he's given in the tutorials and hope for the best, and b) will be bored after the first couple days and just wait for his queue to finish before logging back in.

This doesn't work because you receive full benefit of all attributes and implants without the need to login at any sort of frequency..
In theory a new player could plug in skills in the first day, that would extend beyond his trial period.



JetStream Drenard wrote:
But first. Seriously? You say you should be punished for NOT keeping up with the skill queue, then you say that its a "good idea" to get a little something for nothing when your queue runs dry. Are you trolling me, just being argumentative, or not reading your own post? My +50 implants comment was drool but intended to be humerus, I see that I have to edit that post to avoid confusion by certain people.
As to this do you really think there should be zero punishment for not plugging a skill in? My first post in this thread said that this does coddle the lazy/forgetful, and my opinion on that hasn't changed, however the idea itself seems sound.
To put it in the simplest of terms, in a game where the only way to advance is through a passive skill queue, it makes sense that a fail safe would be in place for periods of unexpected innactivity.
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#24 - 2014-02-04 23:01:15 UTC  |  Edited by: JetStream Drenard
Dun'Gal wrote:
I will save you a little time on that and repost one of the reasons this is a bad idea, which was already mentioned in this thread.
Bagger Mourahn wrote:
An extended skill queue promotes the notion that you do not need to log in while still being a very young pilot. Imagine as a new pilot plugging in a weeks worth of skills, it's likely in this situation that a) this new pilot is just going to plug in whatever he's given in the tutorials and hope for the best, and b) will be bored after the first couple days and just wait for his queue to finish before logging back in.

This doesn't work because you receive full benefit of all attributes and implants without the need to login at any sort of frequency..
In theory a new player could plug in skills in the first day, that would extend beyond his trial period.

When I read that, it didnt seem like a real issue to me. I have been on this game every available opportunity since I found it about 6 months ago. This has nothing to do with my queue and everything to do with actually playing the game. I am certainly no expert, but anyone who only logs on to update their skill queue is going to do just that regardless of frequency. Which is probably only occuring by people with serious real life commitments, like me on workdays. Otherwise, why would anyone pay to keep their accounts active, if they were not going to actually play? Like I mentioned already, I do sacrifice some portion (10 minutes at worst) of my sleep on work days to keep my queues updated. Is it a big deal, No. Should it be necessary, No. Will getting a few free skillpoints instead of none change my routine, No. Is getting a little help with skill points, when real life punches you in the face a good thing, Yes. Is having a slightly longer amount of time to fill MORE helpful, Yes. At least I think so and it benefits everyoneAnd it could be given only to people with paid accounts. As a new pilot, I examined skill books and training times multiple times a day, to better understand it all. A longer queue wouldnt have changed that. But I concede, I cant possibly be the first to suggest this and if a two day queue was what CCP wanted, we would already have it. I do hope they will give some skill points to dry queues, because it is a good idea and only benefits people with real life emergencies.
Bagger Mourahn
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-02-05 00:00:38 UTC
Yeesh you two, keep it civil :P Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like you both are arguing the same thing here, ie you both think it's a reasonable idea. Just agree to agree, and point your friends to the thread for some added support/criticism on the matter. I'm certainly interested in hearing counter-points to the idea, as well as suggestions to improve it.
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S
Affirmative.
#26 - 2014-02-05 02:52:08 UTC
Julius Rigel wrote:
I think the only system that would make sense in terms of letting busy businessmen keep their queues from idling would be something like:


  • Feature / change: The skill queue can hold up to two skills, even if the first skill exceeds 24 hours.
  • Impact: This removes the necessity to log in within a specific 24-hour period at the end of a skill queue, or to add short skills to the front of the skill queue to push back the 24-hour window.
  • Impact: Potentially add one 30-day skill on top of another 30-day skill. May be viewed as an abuse.

I do believe that I suggested this exact thing in a few previous Skill Queue Improvement discussions :P Nice to see someone else bring this one up :)

Although the impact probably isn't too bad, because they would have had to go through all the preceding skills to get to that stage :P
Equinox Ying
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-02-05 03:28:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Equinox Ying
Hmmm I had an idea, what if CCP randomly plops in a skill you have in your skill collection, into your queue?
Lets say there is a service similar to clone purchasing, you pay a fee and when you arent able to get to a computer to update skill queue, the skill is injected, and next time you log in you will have to pay the fee again so it you are covered for next time.
So maybe you can pay a small fee for it to auto apply a small skill (level II) and a large fee and it will plop in JDC V for you. Seems like a plan, im sure there are better idea though.


Also this could be implemented with clones too, maybe when you dont upgrade your clone and you die you pay a fee 1000% of what the clone should cost, as i see no reason why it is even possible to be able to lose SP, i mean essentially that what we pay each month for, so perhaps this is another idea CCP can address.


Edit:
Also to prevent trial account users from plugging in a longer skill queue, or whatever you guys were going on about, make it a skill to learn, Level I allows you to save some skill, Level V allows you to save up to 50% of the SP etc etc, or whatever, it doesnt matter, just make the skill untrainable on trial accounts.
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#28 - 2014-02-05 04:50:42 UTC
Bagger Mourahn wrote:
Yeesh you two, keep it civil :P


Appologies, not interested in derailing the thread as I genuinely like the idea, hopefully more people see it and see the good in it. Could try posting it in the little things thread, though I'm not sure how "little" this is.
Leost
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-02-05 10:57:27 UTC
If your queue is ever empty why not just have the game randomly pick a non-level 5 skill and start training. You'd never "lose" SP, but you don't get to direct the training if you forget. Might even be fun to create a character and never set a skill for training and see how long it takes you to fly a destroyer.
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#30 - 2014-02-05 11:07:03 UTC
I have a far simpler solution- a 'reserve' skill slot that sits at the bottom of the queue thatis trained should it ever become empty- of course if you put Amarr Frigate I there, it's not going to be much of a safety net, but anything to V would do well.

This basically lets you queue up 24 hours worth of skills + 1 skill. That +1 makes all the difference.
Bagger Mourahn
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-02-05 19:32:05 UTC
Equinox Ying wrote:
Hmmm I had an idea, what if CCP randomly plops in a skill you have in your skill collection, into your queue?
Leost wrote:
If your queue is ever empty why not just have the game randomly pick a non-level 5 skill and start training.
Jessica Danikov wrote:
I have a far simpler solution- a 'reserve' skill slot that sits at the bottom of the queue thatis trained should it ever become empty- of course if you put Amarr Frigate I there, it's not going to be much of a safety net, but anything to V would do well.


These are some great suggestions, which I'm sure would do well as fleshed out ideas of there own. My thoughts on them if I may.

The first two suggestions mean there is absolutely no penalty for forgetting to keep your skill queue full, which I don't think is something that would ever be acceptable by CCP standards. If this were the case one would literally never have to log in, so long as they had some un-maxed skills plugged into there character sheet.

The third suggestion is effectively a way to extend the skill queue, which has been discussed here and in other threads. While this is also a possible solution, it has been presented as something that the community isn't on board with.

While I do appreciate your thoughts on the matter, I am looking for feedback on the idea that I have suggested here, as opposed to completely different ideas.
Lakados O'Shava
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-02-06 08:11:56 UTC
I don't see anything inherently wrong with this idea. This or maybe just a phone app that let you manage your training remotely.
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