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Navy scorp?
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Goldennuggets
Bath Salt Abusers
#1 - 2014-02-03 21:41:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldennuggets
hey i'm starting level 4s. not sure if a navy scorpion or a navy raven or a regular raven would be best to start with., but i'm guessing navy scorp. isk isnt an issue, but obviously ganking is. here's the fit i'm looking at

[Scorpion Navy Issue, lvl 4]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I

Large Shield Booster II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
5a Prototype Shield Support I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

i'm wondering if anyone can help me improve this for lvl 4s or possibly suggest something else.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-02-03 22:09:35 UTC
The navy raven is better as it applies damage better so you will kill stuff faster.
The extra tank of the scorp is not needed.
Ganking a T2 fitted mission ship is rare as you can't make a profit from it.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Goldennuggets
Bath Salt Abusers
#3 - 2014-02-04 00:25:53 UTC
why does it have better application? whats a good fitting?
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-02-04 00:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
It slightly concerns me that you say you're starting level 4's and ISK isn't an issue... Sounds like a recipe for a ship loss but it's' your ISK.


Here's something I put together... No one will gank your T2 fitted ship unless they're bored. Now if you shoot at someone that's trying to bait you well then no amount of tank will save you.


If you plan on doing missions for any amout of time train for T2 launchers... T2 missiles will give you a big DPS boost.

[Raven Navy Issue, Level 4]
Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Large Micro Jump Drive

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Scourge Cruise Missile

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hobgoblin II x10
Hammerhead II x5
Goldennuggets
Bath Salt Abusers
#5 - 2014-02-04 06:16:32 UTC
do most people put target painters on?
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-02-04 08:26:56 UTC
Goldennuggets wrote:
hey i'm starting level 4s. not sure if a navy scorpion or a navy raven or a regular raven would be best to start with...
IMO
If you have the ISK, the SNI is the way to go. Early on your DPS will be pretty meager and extra tank will be needed (SNI), later you will want to move into the RNI when your DPS is stronger.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-02-04 08:28:40 UTC
Goldennuggets wrote:
do most people put target painters on?
I don't know if most people do, but it is a good idea.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#8 - 2014-02-04 10:43:08 UTC
As others stated above, the Navy scorp gives some extra tank which you technically don't need but it might make it a tad safer and easier on the fitting. Having said that it's not difficult to not need that extra tank so you're probably better off spending your isk on a ship that has improved applied dps rather than improved tank.

A painter is generally a bad thing to use, it doesn't work too well at all outside 45km which, given the range of cruise missiles, sucks and if you only have 1 painter it means you can only really attack 1 target. So either don't bother at all or get 2 or 3 or.

Rig wise either fit 3 rigors or use 2x T2 rigor and 1x T2 flare. Mixing T1 rigor and flare generally isn't as good.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#9 - 2014-02-04 10:56:53 UTC
SNI is a slow ship. It won't work the way I want it to and so I do not like it.

Oh god.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-02-04 12:56:31 UTC
There is nothing wrong with the SNI.

you can use it early on in your carreer as mission runner, because it is easy to fit, at low skills you can use the extra tank to compensate for your low skills.

Unlike all those uber CNR's it doesn't need faction mods to be able to run missions efective.

Later on in your carreer, you'll notice this extra tank is not realy needed, so drop a tank related module and you have an extra midslot.

You will also notice that due to the 6 instead of 8 launchers and the freedom to fit lesser shield modules you'll have CPU to spare, more than on a CNR even tough that one starts with a little bit more.

it has 8 Midslots which will give you a surplus on extra's you can do multiple Targetpainters to get the damage application right.
Propulsion mod, signal amplifiers, other stuff that doesn't show on EFT as dps, but will make finishing your missions faster.

abd because of the CPU bufer you get you're able to fit a Drone Damage mod in your lows and a link in your utillity high, having little need to worry about frigates at all, and boostng your overall DPS.

and when you're done running lvl 4 mission you could refit it for lvl 5 missions.

The SNI is a very nice and adaptable ship which you can use for a lot of stuf in EVE.

and it hides in plain site, i gankersw show up and they probe a CNR and a SNI in the system tend to go for the CNR.

al with all it is not the best ship out there but it's a very good alrounder and way more adaptable than the CNR.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-02-04 14:07:49 UTC
Mike Whiite wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the SNI.
you can use it early on in your carreer as mission runner, because it is easy to fit, at low skills you can use the extra tank to compensate for your low skills.

I won't argue with the SNI can have more tank since you can pretty much make a SNI cap stable with an T2 XLSB. Of course you won't have 3 rigors and 4 BCS in that fit either.

The fit he posted was using a MJD to keep out of scram range, reduce the incoming DPS to allow less tanking modules. The MJD CNR fit I posted actually has more tank and cap than the SNI fit he posted.

Mike Whiite wrote:
Unlike all those uber CNR's it doesn't need faction mods to be able to run missions efective.

This is not true. I have a T2 fitted CNR that I use to run SOE missions with since they gank anything with faction mods there. It has 4 T2 BCS for max damage and 2 rigors.

Mike Whiite wrote:
it has 8 Midslots which will give you a surplus on extra's you can do multiple Targetpainters to get the damage application right.
Propulsion mod, signal amplifiers, other stuff that doesn't show on EFT as dps, but will make finishing your missions faster.

abd because of the CPU bufer you get you're able to fit a Drone Damage mod in your lows and a link in your utillity high, having little need to worry about frigates at all, and boostng your overall DPS.

You do know that the CNR only has one less mid slot?

Yes the SNI can fit 2-3 target painters to increase the applied DPS but this is at a loss of tank. The CNR's 20% bonus to explosion radius at battleship 4 makes up for not using them. You can still use one for frigates.

DDA can help a newer pilot with not so hot drone skills kill frigates but with the drone aggro system I wouldn't say it would increase your overall DPS since if it's a MJD fit you'll be out of drone range and if it's a close in fit you'll be pulling drones in quite often.

Mike Whiite wrote:
and when you're done running lvl 4 mission you could refit it for lvl 5 missions.

The SNI is a very nice and adaptable ship which you can use for a lot of stuf in EVE.

and it hides in plain site, i gankersw show up and they probe a CNR and a SNI in the system tend to go for the CNR.

al with all it is not the best ship out there but it's a very good alrounder and way more adaptable than the CNR.

I'll agree with all of this except the ganking part. Yes they might notice you if you're in a CNR over a SNI but they're not going to gank you without scanning you...



Don't take my comments as to say the SNI is "bad" in any way... I have a few that I run missions with one sometimes. I just didn't agree with some of the points you made. If I had one gripe about the SNI it would be the lack of velocity bonus means precision cruise missiles are limited to 74km. It can be annoying in a MJD fit... This is a minor annoyance and not a big deal.

I always recommend a plain MJD Raven if they're just starting level 4's but the OP says ISK isn't an issue.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#12 - 2014-02-04 15:47:00 UTC
SNI is very strong ship when you have level 5 BS skill

20% boost to shield resist
slighter bigger shield than CNR/Raven
8 Mid slot to ensure that you can have varied style of shield tank or modules that help you with damage application.
high slot utility so you can even equip salvager with MTU to act as tractor beam.
DPS is same as CNR/Raven with different in damage application. (note: CNR ship bonus don't apply to Rapid Heavy Launcher)
Goldennuggets
Bath Salt Abusers
#13 - 2014-02-04 17:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldennuggets
okay so it sounds like the navy raven is the way to go! played around in EFT for a long time with battleclinic and eve uni fittings and IIshira's fit is better than all of them... although im not sure how to calculate explosion/velocity damage
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-02-04 18:52:45 UTC
Goldennuggets wrote:
okay so it sounds like the navy raven is the way to go! played around in EFT for a long time with battleclinic and eve uni fittings and IIshira's fit is better than all of them.


I use my overtanked SNI for running missions when I'm lazy but if I want to run through them I use my CNR. Right now I'm messing with a Golem.
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-02-04 22:26:19 UTC
Goldennuggets wrote:
hey i'm starting level 4s. not sure if a navy scorpion or a navy raven or a regular raven would be best to start with., but i'm guessing navy scorp. isk isnt an issue, but obviously ganking is. here's the fit i'm looking at

[Scorpion Navy Issue, lvl 4]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I

Large Shield Booster II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
5a Prototype Shield Support I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

i'm wondering if anyone can help me improve this for lvl 4s or possibly suggest something else.

drop useless target painters. fit sensor boosters with targeting range scripts. kill everything from 200+ km.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-02-05 00:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Caleidascope wrote:
Goldennuggets wrote:
hey i'm starting level 4s. not sure if a navy scorpion or a navy raven or a regular raven would be best to start with., but i'm guessing navy scorp. isk isnt an issue, but obviously ganking is. here's the fit i'm looking at

[Scorpion Navy Issue, lvl 4]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I

Large Shield Booster II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
5a Prototype Shield Support I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

i'm wondering if anyone can help me improve this for lvl 4s or possibly suggest something else.

drop useless target painters. fit sensor boosters with targeting range scripts. kill everything from 200+ km.


If this was actually possible with the SNI the horrible delay and having to count volleys would drive you crazy... But it's not since the SNI doesn't get a velocity bonus so you're not going past 150km
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#17 - 2014-02-05 06:46:54 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
As others stated above, the Navy scorp gives some extra tank which you technically don't need but it might make it a tad safer and easier on the fitting. Having said that it's not difficult to not need that extra tank so you're probably better off spending your isk on a ship that has improved applied dps rather than improved tank.

A painter is generally a bad thing to use, it doesn't work too well at all outside 45km which, given the range of cruise missiles, sucks and if you only have 1 painter it means you can only really attack 1 target. So either don't bother at all or get 2 or 3 or.

Rig wise either fit 3 rigors or use 2x T2 rigor and 1x T2 flare. Mixing T1 rigor and flare generally isn't as good.



Why the hell would you want to attack more than one target?
Goldennuggets
Bath Salt Abusers
#18 - 2014-02-05 09:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldennuggets
well heres the end result. extra targeting range was better than a 3rd field. might have to switch power diagnostic with a coprocessor once i get t2 launchers. when my shield tank skills are a lot higher, i'll probly end up switching a shield boost amp with a target painter and see if it really makes a difference with frigs/cruisers that get too close. thanks for the helpLol

[Raven Navy Issue, 2]
Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script
Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hobgoblin I x5
Hammerhead I x5
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-02-05 11:09:28 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Mike Whiite wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the SNI.
you can use it early on in your carreer as mission runner, because it is easy to fit, at low skills you can use the extra tank to compensate for your low skills.

I won't argue with the SNI can have more tank since you can pretty much make a SNI cap stable with an T2 XLSB. Of course you won't have 3 rigors and 4 BCS in that fit either.

The fit he posted was using a MJD to keep out of scram range, reduce the incoming DPS to allow less tanking modules. The MJD CNR fit I posted actually has more tank and cap than the SNI fit he posted.

Mike Whiite wrote:
Unlike all those uber CNR's it doesn't need faction mods to be able to run missions efective.

This is not true. I have a T2 fitted CNR that I use to run SOE missions with since they gank anything with faction mods there. It has 4 T2 BCS for max damage and 2 rigors.

Mike Whiite wrote:
it has 8 Midslots which will give you a surplus on extra's you can do multiple Targetpainters to get the damage application right.
Propulsion mod, signal amplifiers, other stuff that doesn't show on EFT as dps, but will make finishing your missions faster.

abd because of the CPU bufer you get you're able to fit a Drone Damage mod in your lows and a link in your utillity high, having little need to worry about frigates at all, and boostng your overall DPS.

You do know that the CNR only has one less mid slot?

Yes the SNI can fit 2-3 target painters to increase the applied DPS but this is at a loss of tank. The CNR's 20% bonus to explosion radius at battleship 4 makes up for not using them. You can still use one for frigates.

DDA can help a newer pilot with not so hot drone skills kill frigates but with the drone aggro system I wouldn't say it would increase your overall DPS since if it's a MJD fit you'll be out of drone range and if it's a close in fit you'll be pulling drones in quite often.

Mike Whiite wrote:
and when you're done running lvl 4 mission you could refit it for lvl 5 missions.

The SNI is a very nice and adaptable ship which you can use for a lot of stuf in EVE.

and it hides in plain site, i gankersw show up and they probe a CNR and a SNI in the system tend to go for the CNR.

al with all it is not the best ship out there but it's a very good alrounder and way more adaptable than the CNR.

I'll agree with all of this except the ganking part. Yes they might notice you if you're in a CNR over a SNI but they're not going to gank you without scanning you...



Don't take my comments as to say the SNI is "bad" in any way... I have a few that I run missions with one sometimes. I just didn't agree with some of the points you made. If I had one gripe about the SNI it would be the lack of velocity bonus means precision cruise missiles are limited to 74km. It can be annoying in a MJD fit... This is a minor annoyance and not a big deal.

I always recommend a plain MJD Raven if they're just starting level 4's but the OP says ISK isn't an issue.



Quick reaction.

- My reactions where on the SNi in general not specific towards the fittings posted here.
- I know it's also possible to fit a CNR with T2 though in that case you can make a SNi more effective.
- The power mission CNR's are all Faction fitted, to gain that 1000+ dps.
- I'm aware o the one less midslot also of the cpu and power problems of the CNR.
- I understand that fitting more TP's and like will reduce it's tank, but that is exactly how you should use the SNI bonus in PVE
- I fit both a augmentor and a damage amplifier, and it's quite doable at both short and long range (those Tp's can also be used to draw argo to you from rats, they hate e-war.
- in a normal mission hub you'll be quite safe in a SNI because 1 it draws less attention, the CNR's en Machs of this world need more Glitter and Glammer to become mission monsters so there is always a more shiny fish arround so to say.
- there are quite some situations where a SNI is a better choise than a CNR though it isn''t always plain to see.
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-02-05 11:16:28 UTC
Goldennuggets wrote:
well heres the end result. extra targeting range was better than a 3rd field. might have to switch power diagnostic with a coprocessor once i get t2 launchers. when my shield tank skills are a lot higher, i'll probly end up switching a shield boost amp with a target painter and see if it really makes a difference with frigs/cruisers that get too close. thanks for the helpLol

[Raven Navy Issue, 2]
Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script
Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Cruise Missile

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hobgoblin I x5
Hammerhead I x5



how long can you run that?

You might want to replace a shield boost amplifier with a cap battery.

on a personal note I don't think it's worth a CNR when using T1 modules
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