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T1 "hunter killer" cruiser
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Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#1 - 2014-02-03 10:24:58 UTC
The "hunter killer" cruiser already exists in Eve. Unfortunately it is currently limited to Tech 3 cruisers. They are the only ships that are able to adequately fit an Expanded Probe Launcher and a combat loadout at the same time. There are a couple of problems with them however:

  1. They are out of reach to younger players due to SP requirements.
  2. They are often prohibitively expensive, even for older players.

I propose a Tech 1 ship that is able to perform the same "hunter killer" role as a Tech 3 cruiser, but with reduced capability. It should be able to fit an Expanded Probe Launcher so that it can scan down ships in space while still being able to fit some tackle and tank, enabling it to hold down targets until backup arrives. It should not be able to warp while cloaked, it should not have bubble immunity, and it should not have 100k+ EHP with a T2 resistance profile.

In order to make this ship accessible to newer players, I suggest a SoCT cruiser which does not have any skill requirements to fly. (Just like the Gnosis, a SoCT Battlecruiser). This would eliminate the SP barrier while still commanding a higher price than a regular Tech 1 cruiser.

Role bonuses would include:

  • a 90% reduction to the CPU cost of Expanded Probe Launchers
  • a 50% bonus to warp speed


Notably, the ship would not receive bonuses to combat ability, resilience or scanning strength. Players would have to choose to fit for scan efficiency or combat capability.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#2 - 2014-02-03 10:53:31 UTC
If it's not going to have combat bonuses, then why not just use a T1 cruiser with less guns?

Oh god.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2014-02-03 11:11:28 UTC
T1 ships capable of fitting an expanded launcher already exist, you just need to use a brain when fitting the classic T1's.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#4 - 2014-02-03 11:34:44 UTC
this is deliberate expanded probe launchers had their cpu increased years ago to limit the number of ships that were able to fit probes and a full combat set up
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2014-02-03 12:07:18 UTC
Gawain Edmond wrote:
this is deliberate expanded probe launchers had their cpu increased years ago to limit the number of ships that were able to fit probes and a full combat set up

Might have been deliberate, but law of unintended consequences comes into play here. The specialised scanning ships & ships like the 'Recons' should all get a bonus to the expanded probe launcher. It doesn't need to be as crazy as the T3's 'This item costs you nothing to fit' bonus, but Cov Ops & Recons both should be able to fit these as part of their roles in EVE. Giving the ability to Cov Ops would help give them a better place atm other than covert cyno spammers and data/relic sites where there are no rats.
And it makes sense that a ship class called Recon could actually.... Recon.

We don't need a new ship class though, two existing classes both should get it.
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#6 - 2014-02-03 12:27:59 UTC
there is no unintended consequence it was made the way it is on purpose. If recons could fit probe launcher point tank damage mods cloak and blah blah blah you wouldn't see anyone flying anything else in space, their would be no reason to have a gang with you while you want out and killed people this ISN'T an accident or unintended in any way shape or form.

Also you started off talking about T1 ships being able to do this and absolutly not (you know unless it's a carrier or battleship) but i looked in eft and you can have a claok probe launcher tackle prop mod tank ewar neuts all on a single pilgrim
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-02-03 12:47:36 UTC
Dunno about you, but I think that stratios fits what you described just fine, except for price. On the other hand, if it was cheap, every scrub would fly one.
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#8 - 2014-02-03 13:06:03 UTC
yes i'd forgotten about those it's like they were designed for it! (thanks for reminding me rhamnousia)

CCP Rise wrote:
*snip* make good platforms for a range of activities including probing, hacking, exploration combat sites, anoms, killing anom runners, spying on people, looking super sexy and generally being kind of awesome.
*snip*

Alundil
Rolled Out
#9 - 2014-02-03 18:26:03 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Dunno about you, but I think that stratios fits what you described just fine, except for price. On the other hand, if it was cheap, every scrub would fly one.

Exactly. Stratios fits the requirement for T1 combat capable scanner. (OP Success)

Also - Recons can easily do this and be combat capable as well. (There's someone behind you)

I'm right behind you
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#10 - 2014-02-03 18:30:53 UTC
Why should there be a t1 ship dedicated to such a specialized role?

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#11 - 2014-02-03 23:05:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Really like this idea.

Get newbies into mission invasion early in their careers. We know people that get into the competitive multiplayer aspects of EVE remain subscribed longer, and this is a tool to let people do that sooner.


Edit: I'm adjusting this idea and posted https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489, something somewhat similar (albeit a bit more specialised).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#12 - 2014-02-03 23:37:02 UTC
Alundil wrote:

Exactly. Stratios fits the requirement for T1 combat capable scanner. (OP Success)

Also - Recons can easily do this and be combat capable as well. (There's someone behind you)

Except it doesn't.

The CPU cost is simply too restrictive on what is left of the fit. They need some bonus to the CPU. Like I said, it doesn't have to be 99% like the T3's, but it does have to exist to make ships like Cov Ops, Recons and SOE actually effective at combat probing.
If it's not broken for the T3's to 0 cost fit it, it's certainly not broken for those ships to have a 50% CPU reduction.
Gawain Edmond
Khanid Bureau of Industry
#13 - 2014-02-04 00:15:31 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Alundil wrote:

Exactly. Stratios fits the requirement for T1 combat capable scanner. (OP Success)

Also - Recons can easily do this and be combat capable as well. (There's someone behind you)

Except it doesn't.

The CPU cost is simply too restrictive on what is left of the fit. They need some bonus to the CPU. Like I said, it doesn't have to be 99% like the T3's, but it does have to exist to make ships like Cov Ops, Recons and SOE actually effective at combat probing.
If it's not broken for the T3's to 0 cost fit it, it's certainly not broken for those ships to have a 50% CPU reduction.



it does fit and you can without any reduction you're just doing it wrong
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#14 - 2014-02-04 01:02:49 UTC
Gawain Edmond wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Alundil wrote:

Exactly. Stratios fits the requirement for T1 combat capable scanner. (OP Success)

Also - Recons can easily do this and be combat capable as well. (There's someone behind you)

Except it doesn't.

The CPU cost is simply too restrictive on what is left of the fit. They need some bonus to the CPU. Like I said, it doesn't have to be 99% like the T3's, but it does have to exist to make ships like Cov Ops, Recons and SOE actually effective at combat probing.
If it's not broken for the T3's to 0 cost fit it, it's certainly not broken for those ships to have a 50% CPU reduction.



it does fit and you can without any reduction you're just doing it wrong

While I will admit that technically you can fit probe launchers on recons and make them combat "capable" (probey pilgrim,) I would counter by saying that while you might define capable as being able to do some damage to a target you've probed, that damage in many cases isn't much more than that of a T1 destroyer. Also that damage can be completely eliminated by anyone who knows enough to shoot down your drones. As for the other cloaky recons, that damage is going to be even more reduced, while admittedly the damage may be more reliable. Honestly the Rapier may be the only other "viable" choice for this sort of role.

They are great for grabbing targets so your fleet can come kill it but anything else is wishful thinking (or reliant on target being squishy,) even though "technically" possible to fit.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#15 - 2014-02-04 03:52:26 UTC
OP was wishing for a noobie friendly Dps cruiser class ship that could fit an expanded probe launcher for combat scanning. Several people mention that there is a T1 cruiser that can accomplish this. There are other cruisers that can as well (though T2 so not noobie friendly). I would argue that looking to combat probe, tackle and 'solo' kill is very tall order for a pilot with the skills that I assume OP is referring to.

That said the point that non T3 ships aren't effective at combat probing is silly. With the proper skills, practice and knowledge of dscan probing targets quickly so that your probes are on the dscan of your target for a very small window of time is VERY doable. I do it in Arazus, anathemas and Helios all the time.

But those again aren't at noobie skill levels either. You can't eat your cake and have it too.

I'm right behind you
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-02-04 04:22:29 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:


They are out of reach to younger players due to SP requirements.
They are often prohibitively expensive, even for older players..



specialization usually comes with these downsides.

If t1 was uber yet cheap no one would fly higher end stuff. Hell even if expensive no would fly it. I am looking at pre-nerf dramiel. It was an inty/af mashup that blotted out the sun as inty and af long ago had many issues. Sure it was pricey, but fit and flown right had a much better chance to actually make it back home after bagging kills in combat.

At times when moon goo markets utter crap for t2 cruiser pricing navy were an adequate and much cheaper option as well in the past.