Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think CAS has done more for newbro retention than all the marketing projects CCP developed.

NPC corps create content, plain and simple. You just don't like the content doesn't involve assholery to a segment of players who prefer to carebear.

So where does Red Frog fit into this, or countless other hauler alts or other such people who have a legitimate reason to stay in an NPC corp?

Scouts, etc.

I don't see how forcing people to join a corp is good for the game. That would hurt the game, not make it better.

CAS is a nice example of newb corp chat being helpful... SAK was so-so..

Since this has been moved to features and ideas. I will say overall theme of this and the responses about shutting down rookie NPC corps for the reasons the OP mention just has well dumb but since it's here I want to provide a different idea for CCP to consider.

How about instead of deleting the NPC corps or moving people out as the OP suggested let's have CCP get more involved with the NPC corps. I mean what better way to have influence and provide a better New Player Experience then by monitoring and providing information at the corporation level. By having CCP representation in the NPC, they can ensure the proper information is getting out to the new players. If they feel an open mind is not being provided well then they can insert their feedback. If a NPC has no life or very negative they can change that by having more roams and doing more with that specific community. You want to bolster a community, I say then get in with the community with influence and support or through providing opportunities. I feel this is a much better use of employee time then sitting in rookie chat and being able to respond to one or two simple questions because of all the useless banter that occurs.

Here are some other reasons to keep rookie NPCs in place and allow players to remain in rookie NPCs:

1. No one wants to PvP all the time.
2. Experienced players in the NPCs are willing to help through instruction and give them isk, ships, modules, and their time all for nothing.
2. Players at a 3-6 month time period are at a point that can make or break them in the game by sending these players out into the wild west could make them quit.
3. Being wardec can suck and limit your ability to do day to day stuff. (See #1 & 2)
4. Without NPC and those players ability to move around the map freely the economy of eve may not prosper I mean who else is going to make all those nice modules you guys need all the time to fight.
4. Some players don't want to be in a crappy Player Corp and I would argue there is a lot of them out there by evaluating the employment history of many characters. The turn over rate in player corps is horrendous.
4. Players don't want to be told what to do on a day to day basis. I have a boss at work that tells me what to do I don't want one in a game.

In closing, I have to assume you guys forgot how difficult this game is as a new player and creating an alt is not the same. The one who has never played before, has no knowledge of game mechanics, or how that changes across the different sectors. They need some guidance and coaching from more experienced players who choose to reside in an NPC. Yes they need to be told don't go into lowsec until you are able to do certain things or be prepared die. Oh and by the way, here is how you prepare to die. They need an injection of funds when they do stupid things like warp off into anomaly site and loose their ship after you've just help them complete an agent mission because there ship wasn't properly fit.


I would also bet a large majority of you have alts or even mains in rookie NPCs for at least on or more of the reasons I mentioned above. If not well, you're probably one of the rare few congrats on wanting to take that path but hey how else would you know what's really going on in rookie NPCs.

Definitely not the case.

I've just literally spent all week in a number of rookie npcs, including CAS (my post wasn't about CAS though - I used it as my example because of the praise it receives, and am unsurprised that my post wouldn't get rave reviews from those folks of which it was critical) but I also know full well that stating those guys are only interested in 'clarifications' abuses that word. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the number of times I witnessed them reacting violently to strangers popping into their channel, how many times the channel pop was commented on and talk about keeping it up was mentioned, how many times it was stated that anyone who stopped by to visit was there for a nefarious purpose, how many newbros were told to block all strangers (what? forever?) or how many times newbros were advised not to leave or they would be cast adrift. Nothing I wrote about happened only once and my testimony is that it's happening in a lot of places.

Long-term residency in the rookie npc corps does allow (obviously, in some instances) new players organizational opportunities that they probably wouldn't have access to outside of that group. But the fact that the experience is undeniably inconsistent (both across the board and even at different times within the same channel) is an issue and the NPE is so critical to player retention that it demands egos be put aside and this is looked at objectively. And as they exist completely outside of the wardec mechanic, whether it should be so much fun to live there forever is debatable. I may come across as insensitive, but I care about EVE and I'm just being objective. I'm not out to get anybody. So debate the issues - not me.

But before I go, I have one more point of contention I'd like to mention here and it's with a number of you speaking fondly of the many millions of isk and ships you have gifted newbros to 'help' them. This probably deserves its own topic, but are you positive that you are helping them by doing this?

I can remember very clearly mining in a tormentor, a coercer, and an abbadon, in my first year of EVE. I remember how huge this place was and how every isk mattered to me. Those limitations drive the consequences of newbro decisions. The 23 missions of the SoE epic arc pay out (with bonuses) less than 8 million isk and that takes the average newbro days to navigate. So just giving them 10 million isk - a pittance to an established player - is the equivalent of days of gameplay for those guys and is more than they'e going to get from Sister Alitura. And yet I've known veterans to run down the list in rookie help and help chat gifting 10 million isk to all present.

There's likely two camps on this subject. Those who think grinding is stupid and anything that gets you to a goal of having fun more quickly is best. And those who think grinding is necessary as it provides the value in the experience and invests you in your gameplay. (Instant vs delayed gratification) Which is right? Which is best? Which is better for player retention? All debatable. But I will state simply that no one gifted me millions of isk or free ships when I started playing, and after 6 years, I'm still here.

YK

They hide their freighter pilots in NPC corp so then they're hiding outside the sandbox, yes.

And this brings us back in full circle.

Can you please define "sandbox" then, because I think my view of a sandbox is much much more broad than yours.

They hide their freighters in an NPC corp so they can do their job.

They can do their job being in a corp and having defences, it's too easy to avoid trouble this way.

Very simple. Being IN the sandbox means you're taking part, you build your own sand castle which can be taken down and everyone is on the same rules. Being in an NPC corp is all about frantically trying to avoid having to build a castle in the first place. The result is a difference in rules, people who build castles can be attacked, ones who don't build castles can not.

Sandbox doesn't mean that there are or shouldn't be rules, it means that the rules are the same for everyone and that anything goes. The whole concept of NPC corp that can't be decced means that not anything goes simply because they can't be attacked.

So no, NPC corps where you can hide in full safety have no place in a sandbox.

No, you're obviously avoiding the issue. Being in a corp that can be wardecced or otherwise attacked (by being part of FW) means that you built your sand castle which you will have to defend and which can be attacked. By being in an NPC corp you're not on an even playing field, suddenly different rules apply.

Being a station trader means there's no difference between being in a corp or not as they never undock, so that doesn't create a difference in rules.

Safe NPC corps (outside "newbie protection") needs to go.