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Crime & Punishment

 
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Highsec PvP-ers needed for foreverwar against Goons

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Author
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1081 - 2014-02-03 17:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
if only we had not alienated master propagandist gevlon goblin, who successfully shattered our coalition with a graph that makes no sense

if only we had not made an enemy of such a powerful person, well known for their complete lack of autism and well known for their cunning grasp of game mechanics and social dynamics

oh well, the goonswarm 0.0 dream is over

you might say it was... the mittani's final mistake

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#1082 - 2014-02-03 17:27:56 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
you might say it was... the mittani's final mistake


Again. Lol

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1083 - 2014-02-03 17:44:52 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
I understand that. But SMA was also famous for its industrial community. And the mighty Mittani decided that culture, traditions and whatever aside, half membership must be purged for not participating.

This is my point. Goonwaffe are demanding performance but not performing itself. Hence the "masters and pets" difference. SMA was couldn't get away with what is the norm in Goonwaffe. If all CFC members were encouraged to keep useless "friends" around, it would be fine. But having such people is the privilege of the pure blood Goons, pets are "lined up and shot" for the same.
Firstly, the SMA guys weren't participating in industry ops either.

Secondly, your comparing a corp to an alliance. Corp participation is dealt with internally to the alliance. You'll find several corps in each alliance with low participation.

Thirdly, even if goons wrote a giant letter saying "we do not participate at all" and threw it at us, we still would not care. Our coalition clearly works the way it is. We have a strong leadership structure with a broad range of skills and are led in a way that allows us all to feel valued and included, without using the majority of our playtime. An EX-TEST member with barely any working knowledge of EVE mechanics spewing out "goons don't do anything" isn't going to suddenly change that.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1084 - 2014-02-03 17:46:39 UTC
Quote:
The propaganda of TEST bankruptcy will end just as fast as "N3 is destroyed by the sov-dropping director". TEST can no longer bankrupt. Moons can be taken, members not. As long as there are members loging in, there will be ISK in the chest, therefore there will be SRP. As long as there is SRP, there will be PvP-er to fly them. As the funds increase, more will be available for "get your first battleship for free" or "hourly pay for structure grinders" or free slowcats.

The "Goon idea" has lost the war. Goonswarm may not as they shown fast adaptation skills. Maybe the next Mittani move will be evaluating corps based on ISK given to the war chest and everyone will be expected to recruit carebears. But the idea of "grr carebears, kill them all, PvP forever" is as dead as the master-pet system of BoB and -A-.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#1085 - 2014-02-03 22:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:


This is because we don't recruit established eve players, we recruit newbees. Even though we have a much better retention rate than pubs, we still lose a hell of a lot. Our figures are indicative of having a dead-weight of people who only have a casual interest in the game.

We're never going to stop letting these people in because they're part of our outside community, and everyone knows it.


I understand that. But SMA was also famous for its industrial community. And the mighty Mittani decided that culture, traditions and whatever aside, half membership must be purged for not participating.

This is my point. Goonwaffe are demanding performance but not performing itself. Hence the "masters and pets" difference. SMA was couldn't get away with what is the norm in Goonwaffe. If all CFC members were encouraged to keep useless "friends" around, it would be fine. But having such people is the privilege of the pure blood Goons, pets are "lined up and shot" for the same.


This is the literal opposite of being the point. Goonwaffe/CONDI is seen as the low-water mark for participation, given (as has now been explained countless times) that there are many reasons why participation is lacking. If you're not out-performing a corp/alliance whose requirement for joining is: has pulse, then you have serious issues in your alliance. SMA weren't just not turning up, they were also listing off hard to port and leaking intel all over the place. People not engaged enough to log in to strat OPs, even occasionally, are people who likely not loyal in any measurable way. The 'action' taken to make them pick up was done so after multiple instances of leaks being traced to SMA; the article you keep quoting as 'evidence' we're so awful will explain this to you if you read past the first paragraph. This is all public information, I shouldn't need to (again) explain basic things that you can achieve yourself with a search engine.
AFAIK TEST got a lot of leeway for poor participation metrics based on the fact they were also from an external community and were pushing around dead-weight - they got regions and tech moons given to them despite not really doing much of anything per-member. If you're an eve-born alliance and you're not turning up for strat OPs / joining any groups / turning up for industry ops (these are measured as well), and ergo are not playing the game as an entity, then you need to change things up.

The part in your story you're missing is that SMA actually have turned themselves around and remain a full member of the CFC today, and are all the better for it internally and externally.

If you honestly think you can convince them/other allies they're being "used" then keep trying, I guess. TEST / SOCO / N3 / BOB have all come out with the same thing before. The reason it doesn't work as an argument is because you're looking at it from the outside and drawing wildly divergent opinions from reality; much like someone from North Korea who thinks the USA is a land of terrible oppression and they're free men.

You seem to have swallowed a whole load of badly-written TEST propaganda during the Fountain war. Why do you think their participation nosedived? The ones with any common sense didn't swallow the "being in the CFC was so terrible we are abused orphans" crap and jumped ship pretty damn quick. The dribbling reddit teens stayed on, to a predictable end.

e: As soon as the split happened (even when we were mutual blues) a metric ton of ship-jumping into CFC corps and alliances happened. As soon as the reset happened, a lot of quite desperate ship jumping happened. There's a pretty long list of ex-Dreddit members in various GSF corps and CFC alliances. What I'm saying is, the line members in TEST were very happy to be CFC before Montolio started jumping up and down and trying to be important.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#1086 - 2014-02-03 22:24:45 UTC
I also always refute silly points with multiple walls of text.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#1087 - 2014-02-03 23:25:41 UTC
Danalee wrote:
I also always refute silly points with multiple walls of text.

D.

Bear


My last attempt to get some sane logic into the dude. But hey, at least you're publicly admitting you think his whole project is silly.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Del DelVechio
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#1088 - 2014-02-04 00:17:50 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Danalee wrote:
I also always refute silly points with multiple walls of text.

D.

Bear


My last attempt to get some sane logic into the dude. But hey, at least you're publicly admitting you think his whole project is silly.


Except for the "pay Marmites 500m per week for war decs". Thats genius, just not on his part........
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#1089 - 2014-02-04 00:27:18 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
My last attempt to get some sane logic into the dude. But hey, at least you're publicly admitting you think his whole project is silly.


Gevlon departed sanity and logic right around the time he decided the best way to lash out at goons was in highsec. That being said: between this thread and the other one its a honeypot and part of my regular morning reading Smile
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1090 - 2014-02-04 00:47:11 UTC
Del DelVechio wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Danalee wrote:
I also always refute silly points with multiple walls of text.

D.

Bear


My last attempt to get some sane logic into the dude. But hey, at least you're publicly admitting you think his whole project is silly.


Except for the "pay Marmites 500m per week for war decs". Thats genius, just not on his part........

gevlon is paying somewhere betweeen 2-3b a week on wardecs between marmites and lemmings

you can imagine how hilarious that is to us, i should total up the amount of isk we've trolled him into flushing down a toilet

the 40b he donated to test though is hard to top

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Saeger1737
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#1091 - 2014-02-04 05:05:58 UTC
I think its time to ask.... Gelvon show us on the doll where mittens touched you...

MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!

Louis Robichaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1092 - 2014-02-04 05:06:16 UTC
Well... one has to admit that content *is* being generated, both in game and in metagame. Admittedly it's silly content, but it's still content. And because propaganda and delusions trumps reality, everyone is winning!

... although seriously, stop flying dual tanked navy apocs with no rigs, medium guns and 1mn propmods. That made my eyes bleed and that's going too far! It's just a game people.

I blog a bit http://hspew.blogspot.ca

Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1093 - 2014-02-04 05:42:04 UTC
Weaselior wrote:

gevlon is paying somewhere betweeen 2-3b a week on wardecs between marmites and lemmings

you can imagine how hilarious that is to us, i should total up the amount of isk we've trolled him into flushing down a toilet

the 40b he donated to test though is hard to top


"ISK" is just pixels. You can only donate time in EVE. I mean the time I spent earning that ISK.
Since my income is 6-700M/hour, it means that I donate 4 hours a week to Marmite for running the Lemmings and massacring Goons and pets.

I donated about 65 hours to TEST which was indeed wasted and I regretted it.

But hard to top? How much time the Goon pets were donated to grind down regions in bombless bombers for The Mittani who rents it out?

An Ihub has 5M structure, 75M shield, 112M armor. A Bombless Bomber with imperfect skills has 600 DPS= 2.1M damage/hour. So they donated 91 hours for every single IHUB. And hundreds were taken.

Who is scammed here?

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com

Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1094 - 2014-02-04 06:24:59 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Weaselior wrote:

gevlon is paying somewhere betweeen 2-3b a week on wardecs between marmites and lemmings

you can imagine how hilarious that is to us, i should total up the amount of isk we've trolled him into flushing down a toilet

the 40b he donated to test though is hard to top


"ISK" is just pixels. You can only donate time in EVE. I mean the time I spent earning that ISK.
Since my income is 6-700M/hour, it means that I donate 4 hours a week to Marmite for running the Lemmings and massacring Goons and pets.

I donated about 65 hours to TEST which was indeed wasted and I regretted it.

But hard to top? How much time the Goon pets were donated to grind down regions in bombless bombers for The Mittani who rents it out?

An Ihub has 5M structure, 75M shield, 112M armor. A Bombless Bomber with imperfect skills has 600 DPS= 2.1M damage/hour. So they donated 91 hours for every single IHUB. And hundreds were taken.

Who is scammed here?



You.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool

Pete Butcher
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1095 - 2014-02-04 06:30:16 UTC
BTW. Nice show of understanding ship mechanics, my little goblin. Your latest blog nonsense is quite amusing. You should really lead lemming fleets into battle - now THAT would be a spectacle to watch.

http://evernus.com - the ultimate multiplatform EVE trade tool + nullsec Alliance Market tool

Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#1096 - 2014-02-04 06:41:50 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Who is scammed here?


You are for being mad at guys in a video game Lol
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#1097 - 2014-02-04 12:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: OldWolf69
Gevlon Goblin wrote:

I understand that. But SMA was also famous for its industrial community. And the mighty Mittani decided that culture, traditions and whatever aside, half membership must be purged for not participating.

Oh wait. How good do you know SMA... i'm amazed.And how much do you know about that purge...
Lol M8 i'm simply speechless. But what amazes me for real is how many, otherwise decent players, did you manage to draw into this. But can't complain: entertainment is entertainment. Falling for a WoW player's troll and involving in his fail revenge=priceless.
doc know
Archangels Inc.
End of Natural Lifetime
#1098 - 2014-02-04 12:18:55 UTC
So much talking ;)
Our Game is pretty simple kill the Goons and their RVB Pets !


















___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Der Krieg ist ein Akt der Gewalt, und es gibt in der Anwendung derselben keine Grenzen.
Carl von Clausewitz (1780-1831)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1099 - 2014-02-04 12:25:55 UTC
doc know wrote:
So much talking ;)
Our Game is pretty simple kill the Goons and their RVB Pets !
Oh, I thought your game was to hide whenever the goons actually show up in something other than a frigate or a pod and go talk smack to neutrals in Hek. All so that General Lemming can get a weekly pay check.
Considering the Lemmings are handing over their time so the General can get, what was it, a billion a week? It seems strange that you would choose to call others pets.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#1100 - 2014-02-04 12:31:37 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
doc know wrote:
So much talking ;)
Our Game is pretty simple kill the Goons and their RVB Pets !
Oh, I thought your game was to hide whenever the goons actually show up in something other than a frigate or a pod and go talk smack to neutrals in Hek. All so that General Lemming can get a weekly pay check.
Considering the Lemmings are handing over their time so the General can get, what was it, a billion a week? It seems strange that you would choose to call others pets.

Maybe General Lemming is scamming Ze Goblin?Lol