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Get rid of or significantly lower PI taxes.
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Felicity Love
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-02-03 05:29:10 UTC
01101989 wrote:
Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work.


Just not seeing the downside of hundreds of people like you, working for me.

Plenty of opportunity out there -- you just have to get off your buttox and go take it. Have fun, eh ?



"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Ryder 'ook
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-02-03 16:16:16 UTC
I do PI in high sec.

Leave the vicinity of the large trade hubs and you will be able to find nice, quiet regions with very reasonable prices.

Seriously, I don't see your problem. Apart from being too lazy and refusing to adapt, of course.


... and yes, 200 M ISK / month ist still very possible, even as a newbie with sub-par skills and doing PI exclusively in high sec ...


Inform yourself, fly around and leave your comfort zone.

Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it's time we return home.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#23 - 2014-02-03 16:34:53 UTC
The great thing about pros and cons is that if you decide the cons aren't worth the pros, you are fully capable of electing to NOT do whatever it was that you were considering doing.

If your analysis says you shouldn't do PI where there are high taxes, then you should celebrate your right to not do PI. Congratulations.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#24 - 2014-02-03 16:49:53 UTC
Again, just do it in Low Sec. I use 30 planets and not one is over 2%.

DST's with Cloak/MWD Trick or Blockade Runners with Covops work. Your choice. 30 planets and 5 toons for well over 3 years doing this and only one measly Bustard loss, and I know exactly how that happened.

I have no clue why people are so mortally terrified of Low Sec.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Karle Tabot
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-02-03 17:08:27 UTC
Batelle wrote:
The great thing about pros and cons is that if you decide the cons aren't worth the pros, you are fully capable of electing to NOT do whatever it was that you were considering doing.

If your analysis says you shouldn't do PI where there are high taxes, then you should celebrate your right to not do PI. Congratulations.



I actually agree with you as my earlier post in this thread would show, but I think it remains a valid issue as to whether the most significant end result of the recent changes has been that significantly fewer players now participate in PI.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-02-03 17:36:18 UTC
The changes didn't affect me one jot other than actually giving me lower taxes than the previous interbus CO's. If the taxes changed at my local systems I would simply point out to the owner they will lose the not insubstantial amount of money they get from me if they don't reduce the prices for me. Finding other systems is straight forward. Vote with your ISK and use your position as the owners client. The POCO owners paid for them, they will want the easy money from tax. A little negotiation (if it's even required) can go a long way.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#27 - 2014-02-03 17:39:50 UTC

1.) PI in nullsec and lowsec can be very lucrative. I generally make 1.5-2m per day per planet, using a very hands off approach (restart extractor once a day, pickup once every two weeks).

2.) In highsec, you are "more safe". You pay for that safety in the forms of higher taxes and lower rewards.

3.) Move out of the trade hub areas. There are plenty of POCO's you can utilize with low tax rates, and I bet you could even find a place to put up your own, if you so desire.

4.) PI's are a conflict driver. They are an asset in space you can attack, that is always vulnerable (similar to a POS). These provide you benefits, but also are targets. Form a group of people up and go take them, or don't. But don't despair, as it won't get you anywhere in this game.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#28 - 2014-02-03 17:56:17 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

1.) PI in nullsec and lowsec can be very lucrative. I generally make 1.5-2m per day per planet, using a very hands off approach (restart extractor once a day, pickup once every two weeks).


I've found that reseting extractors on 10 planets once every two days to still be too much work :x

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2014-02-03 17:57:37 UTC
it is unfair i am unable to literally yoke you to my spaceship and whip you to make it move faster but such is life

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2014-02-03 18:39:17 UTC
01101989 wrote:
Other players shouldn't get to passively accumulate income through my hard work. That's unfair and ridiculous. Anything above 1% tax rate is ridiculous. Quite frankly customs offices should be removed from player control entirely. Let the NPC factions control them.


kill the poco and stick up ur own or cry more?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#31 - 2014-02-03 20:00:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Steve Ronuken
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Again, just do it in Low Sec. I use 30 planets and not one is over 2%.

DST's with Cloak/MWD Trick or Blockade Runners with Covops work. Your choice. 30 planets and 5 toons for well over 3 years doing this and only one measly Bustard loss, and I know exactly how that happened.

I have no clue why people are so mortally terrified of Low Sec.


People might Shoot them!

Anyway, Even in Highsec, you've got large groups running POCO, at a rate lower than NPC. It's to entice people in. PI investment tends to be so low that you don't want to risk driving people away. Because they will just leave your planet.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-02-03 20:16:15 UTC
It boils down to another person complaining that he's having difficulty trying to solo a multiplayer game and complaining about PVP in a PVP focused game.

Over 90% of what I do in Eve is PVE content but I do understand this is a PVP game. Other than the starting areas for new pilots there is no zone or content where you're not affected by PVP. At least not that I can think of now. If anyone can please correct me.
Ginger Barbarella
#33 - 2014-02-03 22:43:46 UTC
01101989 wrote:
Thur Barbek wrote:
So, go build your own poco. Then you can collect this "free" isk you speak of.

If you encounters difficulties then maybe its not so free to obtain/upkeep these.


They are too expensive and there are no free planets in high-sec. If I could guarantee a free planet, okay, maybe, but there aren't any. The older corps already have a complete monopoly over this aspect of the game. The tax needs to be lowered substantially.


Wow. Just wow.

1. If you think POCOs are too expensive, you're not in any position to complain about taxes whatsoever.
2. High sec is the home of the insane taxes. Go to low to NPC null. If you're afraid of risking a cheap ship for low/null, you're not in any position to complain about taxes.

There is no easy button. If you're looking to farm cheap with no consequences, you're in the wrong game. If you aren't willing to take risks to make isk, you're in the wrong game. If you whine about costs when the taxes are lower than they are for npc missioners, you're in the wrong game.

Seriously, strap on a pair or gtfo. (And I say that with the utmost love).

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Ginger Barbarella
#34 - 2014-02-03 22:49:34 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
it is unfair i am unable to literally yoke you to my spaceship and whip you to make it move faster but such is life


What?!!?! That doesn't even make sense...

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Tydeth Gilitae
Magewright Artificers
#35 - 2014-02-04 16:16:54 UTC
Keep in mind that unlike Low, Null, and J-space/WH, High-sec's custom office tax is not 100% player-controlled.

High-sec POCOs have two parts to their taxes: a 10% Concord tax + whatever % tax the corp set. If a corp sets their tax rate to 2%, it will be 12% to you because NPCs still get money from High-sec POCOs.

You need that one new trading skill CCP brought out to reduce the Concord tax.
Aneeda
Cosmic Chemicals
#36 - 2014-02-04 18:22:13 UTC
The issue I see with POCOs is that they require no financial upkeep or time to maintain. If a corp sets a POCO on a planet with a tax rate that is too high to generate customers, they should be losing money daily maintaining it. Right now POCO's are a 'set it and forget it' type of structure. If you mismanage your tax rates you aren't penalized for anything beyond the initial investment .

I also feel that once POCOs go without maintenance or upkeep for a certain period of time they should become abandoned so that a more active corp can take them over and manage them correctly. That would give smaller corps a shot at entering the POCO market when larger corps over extend their ability to maintain their POCO investments.
01101989
We're All Living In America
#37 - 2014-02-04 18:29:09 UTC  |  Edited by: 01101989
Aneeda wrote:
The issue I see with POCOs is that they require no financial upkeep or time to maintain. If a corp sets a POCO on a planet with a tax rate that is too high to generate customers, they should be losing money daily maintaining it. Right now POCO's are a 'set it and forget it' type of structure. If you mismanage your tax rates you aren't penalized for anything beyond the initial investment .

I also feel that once POCOs go without maintenance or upkeep for a certain period of time they should become abandoned so that a more active corp can take them over and manage them correctly. That would give smaller corps a shot at entering the POCO market when larger corps over extend their ability to maintain their POCO investments.


I kind of like that idea of POCO depreciation or destruction after a set amount of time. This would force them to lower taxes. Clever girl.
Ginger Barbarella
#38 - 2014-02-04 18:31:13 UTC
Aneeda wrote:
The issue I see with POCOs is that they require no financial upkeep or time to maintain. If a corp sets a POCO on a planet with a tax rate that is too high to generate customers, they should be losing money daily maintaining it. Right now POCO's are a 'set it and forget it' type of structure. If you mismanage your tax rates you aren't penalized for anything beyond the initial investment .

I also feel that once POCOs go without maintenance or upkeep for a certain period of time they should become abandoned so that a more active corp can take them over and manage them correctly. That would give smaller corps a shot at entering the POCO market when larger corps over extend their ability to maintain their POCO investments.


Goonies and RvB would complain too looudly, so that'll never happen. Twisted

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-02-04 19:46:05 UTC
Aneeda wrote:
The issue I see with POCOs is that they require no financial upkeep or time to maintain. If a corp sets a POCO on a planet with a tax rate that is too high to generate customers, they should be losing money daily maintaining it. Right now POCO's are a 'set it and forget it' type of structure. If you mismanage your tax rates you aren't penalized for anything beyond the initial investment .

I also feel that once POCOs go without maintenance or upkeep for a certain period of time they should become abandoned so that a more active corp can take them over and manage them correctly. That would give smaller corps a shot at entering the POCO market when larger corps over extend their ability to maintain their POCO investments.


Or if a large group of pilots feel the tax is too high they could just get together and destroy it. Then put their own POCO with a more reasonable tax rate.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-02-04 19:47:25 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
it is unfair i am unable to literally yoke you to my spaceship and whip you to make it move faster but such is life

This is awesome!