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I don't see where skill is involved with EVE Online.

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Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#81 - 2014-02-03 12:54:44 UTC
Gaj Butler wrote:
I've been playing now for a few weeks and tbh every one I see in PVP just has faction stuff. Since you can buy ISK, EVE is really just pay to win, you can just buy yourself to the top, just get all the best gear and it doesn't matter if you lose it as you can just buy more with real money. This ruins the game really, there is no feeling of loss as no time has been put in to get anything, I bet most people in PVP just buy their way to it. The exception is the large guilds or whatever you call them in this game, they're always the exception, they're so big they can just own large portions of real estate and never be out of pocket.

When you get into combat, EVE never has skilled fighters, it is all who has paid more, who has more friends or which ship counters the other... there is never skill. On top of that you have to wait ages for skills to train....... why? Why am I wasting my life here? My friends who got me into the game, just tend to login to put a new skill on train and log out. It is a pointless passive system that really is not a good mechanic at all, no one finds it fun and it means skills don't require skill to train. I mean if it was like taking a medical test in America's Army 2, then yeah, that is training, how this game does it though... just tedious for all.

I just do not find any redeeming quality to combat in EVE, to me it is pay to win, buy a character with skills, buy isk to get the best stuff...

At this point I'll just be waiting for Star Citizen to do Space Combat well, unlike EVE.


Very true on all points. PVP in EVE is a sick joke.

Old games like Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike you could tell who had skills. Unlike skills in eve where they just use them to seek out 1 or 2 month old toons to gank, or blop overwhelming numbers against their opponent.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#82 - 2014-02-03 13:02:47 UTC
Gaj Butler wrote:
I've been playing now for a few weeks and tbh every one I see in PVP just has faction stuff. Since you can buy ISK, EVE is really just pay to win, you can just buy yourself to the top, just get all the best gear and it doesn't matter if you lose it as you can just buy more with real money. This ruins the game really, there is no feeling of loss as no time has been put in to get anything, I bet most people in PVP just buy their way to it. The exception is the large guilds or whatever you call them in this game, they're always the exception, they're so big they can just own large portions of real estate and never be out of pocket.

When you get into combat, EVE never has skilled fighters, it is all who has paid more, who has more friends or which ship counters the other... there is never skill. On top of that you have to wait ages for skills to train....... why? Why am I wasting my life here? My friends who got me into the game, just tend to login to put a new skill on train and log out. It is a pointless passive system that really is not a good mechanic at all, no one finds it fun and it means skills don't require skill to train. I mean if it was like taking a medical test in America's Army 2, then yeah, that is training, how this game does it though... just tedious for all.

I just do not find any redeeming quality to combat in EVE, to me it is pay to win, buy a character with skills, buy isk to get the best stuff...

At this point I'll just be waiting for Star Citizen to do Space Combat well, unlike EVE.

troll
and a bad one...
just get lost - nobody will miss you punk.

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Anomaly One
Doomheim
#83 - 2014-02-03 13:06:32 UTC
Every game is different, not all games that have "quick reflexes" and dodging stuff is skill all the time, this is one bad argument really.

EvE is like chess, you don't make your move in chess and then correct it, you think about it for a while THEN think of the next move, then the next move, then 10 moves after that and before you know it you still get ganked because you forgot something.

EvE requires thinking, but I can understand why some people don't consider that as requiring skills, because you can't grind thinking.

Never forget. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8sfaN8zT8E http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_ZjVyRxx4 Trust me, I'm an Anomaly. DUST 514 FOR PC
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#84 - 2014-02-03 13:12:27 UTC
Decian Cor wrote:

Because that would totally be way more fun....you should go play WoW.


PVP in WOW was fun, especially the original Alterac Valley in which one battle would last 12 hours or more. It was better in the beginning before gear took over. But I spent hours, night after night of nonstop PVP. And it was fun. They kinda messed up the whole game with arena and adjusting classes around that.

So yea, maybe he should go play WOW or Rift is good also.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2014-02-03 13:34:19 UTC
Alice Ituin wrote:
It's funny how you always read the same arguments when it's about p2w games.
"you still need skill", "you don't automatically win"

By that definition there are no pay to win games, because no p2w game grants you automatic wins when you pay.

EvE IS pay 2 win in the sense that it makes winning easier - just like in any other p2w game. The only problem with that is the definition of "winning" in EvE.



Issue is Eve is NOT pay to win. Isk is nearly meaningless on an individual basis on a single fight and the richest people in eve do not PAY to get that isk.

Isk is relevant when you are talking about a long war between entities, not a single combat. You can make a cruiser equiped with 5 billion isk modules. You will still die if you face a pair of tempests. But if you have 2 corps fighting a war, having isk allows you to recover from losses better, but will not insure you win a fight.



Finnaly there is NOTHING in eve that cannot be bought without real life money. In fact the most powerful stuff in eve is NEVER bought with plexes. No one pays 5 thousand dollars to have a 200Billion isk titan. That money is ALWAYS made without plex.


"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2014-02-03 13:38:51 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Gaj Butler wrote:
I've been playing now for a few weeks and tbh every one I see in PVP just has faction stuff. Since you can buy ISK, EVE is really just pay to win, you can just buy yourself to the top, just get all the best gear and it doesn't matter if you lose it as you can just buy more with real money. This ruins the game really, there is no feeling of loss as no time has been put in to get anything, I bet most people in PVP just buy their way to it. The exception is the large guilds or whatever you call them in this game, they're always the exception, they're so big they can just own large portions of real estate and never be out of pocket.

When you get into combat, EVE never has skilled fighters, it is all who has paid more, who has more friends or which ship counters the other... there is never skill. On top of that you have to wait ages for skills to train....... why? Why am I wasting my life here? My friends who got me into the game, just tend to login to put a new skill on train and log out. It is a pointless passive system that really is not a good mechanic at all, no one finds it fun and it means skills don't require skill to train. I mean if it was like taking a medical test in America's Army 2, then yeah, that is training, how this game does it though... just tedious for all.

I just do not find any redeeming quality to combat in EVE, to me it is pay to win, buy a character with skills, buy isk to get the best stuff...

At this point I'll just be waiting for Star Citizen to do Space Combat well, unlike EVE.


Very true on all points. PVP in EVE is a sick joke.

Old games like Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike you could tell who had skills. Unlike skills in eve where they just use them to seek out 1 or 2 month old toons to gank, or blop overwhelming numbers against their opponent.



Chess.. basically the only game that worldwide is universally recognized as an extreme skill game. It is far clsoer to eve than Coutenr strike

CS is just reflexes, you can make a Bot that defeats any human in these games. Took decades and millions of dolalrs to make a computer defeat a grandmaster at chess. Wich one needs more skill again?


Want an even more extreme game? Magic the gathering. Computer probably still need a few hundred years of eveolution to be match for a human player....

LEt me make it clear for you.. REFLEXES are not skill.. evena mouse has faster reflexes than the best CS player in world. We are humans we are distinguished by rational capabilities...

but if you cannot match humans and focus on what define us and want to try to be half as good as a mouse is on a characteristic that is not even close to relevant in a human.. so be it.. I feel sorry for you.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Inari Visas
Federal Navy Academy
#87 - 2014-02-03 13:43:07 UTC
Eve is strategy focused. Once you realize that, you either quite because you don't like strategy, or you stay for it. The skills needed here are not so much those of the hands, but something else.

Thread please.
Dark'Rai
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#88 - 2014-02-03 13:59:28 UTC
"The exception is the large guilds or whatever you call them in this game"

/done Roll
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#89 - 2014-02-03 15:37:07 UTC
nb4 ISD Ezwal

Thank me later :D
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#90 - 2014-02-03 17:06:35 UTC
Quote:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

Thread locked.

Sorry I'm not Ezwal.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

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