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CCP, Delete NPC Corp Chat

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Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-02-03 04:10:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arsine Mayhem
Newbies have a separate corp. It's a lot different from the NPC corps you get when you leave a corp.

The rookie NPC corps are actually pretty good. Players are generally helpful.

What they need to do is stay away from the forums.

All the stupid gathers here. You need only read comments in this thread.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2014-02-03 04:33:55 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nexus Day wrote:
It takes all of about 30 seconds to find new player friendly, educational corps to join. Groups like Brave Newbies, RvB (Red v Blue), EvE University and (I hate to admit it) New Order. So while I agree with the OP that NPC Corp chat is crap, why would anyone want to stay in a NPC corp past the first week?

Because people in NPC corps give bad advice, like "you can't trust anyone in EVE", "it's better to play solo", "PVP is for griefers", etc.
Absolutely this!

The only thing worse than this are crappy new player corps who have exactly these people in them. New players join these just to be left alone again. Killing these off, while educating said new players about it, is actually a good thing.

And I would never put eveuni onto that list ...


And yet, CCP has NO clue about this and we fail to tell them, it seems...

whats horrible-er, is that the ****** indirect-griefer "noob" corps advertise themselves as "noob friendly" ad then tell noobs all the reasons they should leave the game.

tis why i think either the age to create a corp should have a limit on it, or tutorials educate players how to tell if a corp is led by good/experienced people very early on in the players missions.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#43 - 2014-02-03 04:50:53 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Remove corp chat and you are left with the tutorials which teach you what? To mine and run missions.

No; it's a social game and needs social interaction. There is good advice given along with the bad. It's part of the learning curve to figure out which is which.

Mr Epeen Cool


Not true, some of the newer tutorials teach you to look for wormholes and exploration sites, oh and to wait for a single frigate to jump through a gate so you can be all badass and "gank" him, because this happens in high sec what with the gate guns and concord, etc... /sarcasm

CCP should really point out that the multiplayer/player driven content creating aspect is the true strength of the game and underline it several times, maybe with some tutorials that can only be achieved by interacting with other players. Maybe give some non game-breaking incentive to older players for helping the newbs out on these goals.


AND GOD DAMMIT CCP when are you going to finally fix these forums so they stop eating posts?
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#44 - 2014-02-03 05:44:08 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
You want to know a big reason people who try the game aren't staying? Here's a simple, obvious one that nobody seems to notice: putting new players in the same chat channel as all the worst/dumb/antisocial players is a bad idea. NPC corp players tell people to go mine and run missions 24/7 and compared to the general eve population have about zilcho idea of what they're doing. So, of course, the first channel a new player sees is filled with these bottom-of-the-barrel numbskulls.

Delete NPC corp chat and find a suitable replacement that puts new players in a channel with new players and people who will actually help them. Don't expose them to the horrible brain-plague that is NPC corp chat if you want them to stay. Failing that, simply kick characters older than 3 months out of the initial NPC corp chat channel and put them in another one.

New players aren't going to stick around if they get told to simultaneously shield, armor, and hull tank their ships, or that mining veldspar in highsec for the equivalent of 4 cents an hour is a legitimate "profession" (christ will you STOP ADVERTISING THIS), or to mix their guns so they can hit everything, or that they'll get blown up horribly and have no fun in lowsec or nullsec. But that's exactly what the vast majority of people in NPC corp chat say is how the game works.



In my highsec sperglord experience, I can say that removing NPC corp chat would probably be a good idea.


Thinking about "what could help better?", I'd say a special help channel reserved just for new players and rife with "go here for info on XYZ" links for information would be good.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-02-03 05:56:02 UTC
There are some really bad NPC chats....and some really good ones. CAS is probably the best all around one with lots of vetran (not too bitter) vetran players who help and provide guidance to new players.

In addtion to providing mining, pve, and yes pvp experiences to them and for some a good social environment.

It would be nice if there was a way to move people from NPC corps to other private corps....but for some its the griefing and continual war decs that can happen in private corps that keep some players in NPC land.

The issues are complex and not easily solved - since most people are polar opposites in opinion ie: EvE is 100% pvp game and nobody should play it unless they pvp - vs - EvE should be more of a sandbox and allow other types of gameplay and those that dont want pvp should have somewhere or some way of being able to avoid it.

I tend to fit somewhere in the middle (I am Canadian...we tend to do that) EvE is a pvp game....and there should never be 100% security or safety in game. But at the same time we have to find a way to grow the game, and for that to happen there needs to be npc corps, noobie space and some rules around it.

But back to OP's original statement - i don't think NPC corp chat should be removed - it can help. It is one of the reasons i stuck around....maybe I got lucky with CAS - but it was a reason i stayed.
ashley Eoner
#46 - 2014-02-03 06:44:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
CAS is great and actually has a small, yet active PVP group. Most of the other NPC corps are crap though.

CAS is one I was referring to. The other is RMS which has also had organized lowsec pvp groups with sometimes ensuring hilarity.


On saturday some of the people organized a newbie frig fight in hadaugago where all participates received 600k to buy t1 frigates. the payout was first place 60m with fed comet, second was 35m with firetail, third was 20m , and fourth was 10m

12 newbies participated and it was glorious.
Yonis Zanjoahir
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-02-03 07:48:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Yonis Zanjoahir
Not sure if you guys are stupid or just trolling but the common NPC corps you get into when you leave a player corp are different from the NPC corps you first get into when creating a new character, and new characters get put into the Rookie channel where only other new characters hang out.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-02-03 08:26:28 UTC
I recall at some point there was some talk about NPC corps from CCP, I don't remember the source, I believe it was one of the CSM meeting minute releases over the years, in which they were under the same impression as the op. Then they actually spent some time there and found that to not be the case. I've never seen many of the examples commonly touted as the norm, and on the occasions the ones I have seen are posted, they are usually corrected in short order.

And really, if you think it that much of an issue, anyone with an open character slot is free to jump in and do something about it.
Lugalbandak
Doomheim
#49 - 2014-02-03 08:31:10 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
You want to know a big reason people who try the game aren't staying? Here's a simple, obvious one that nobody seems to notice: putting new players in the same chat channel as all the worst/dumb/antisocial players is a bad idea. NPC corp players tell people to go mine and run missions 24/7 and compared to the general eve population have about zilcho idea of what they're doing. So, of course, the first channel a new player sees is filled with these bottom-of-the-barrel numbskulls.

Delete NPC corp chat and find a suitable replacement that puts new players in a channel with new players and people who will actually help them. Don't expose them to the horrible brain-plague that is NPC corp chat if you want them to stay. Failing that, simply kick characters older than 3 months out of the initial NPC corp chat channel and put them in another one.

New players aren't going to stick around if they get told to simultaneously shield, armor, and hull tank their ships, or that mining veldspar in highsec for the equivalent of 4 cents an hour is a legitimate "profession" (christ will you STOP ADVERTISING THIS), or to mix their guns so they can hit everything, or that they'll get blown up horribly and have no fun in lowsec or nullsec. But that's exactly what the vast majority of people in NPC corp chat say is how the game works.


not only that but raise the npc taxes to atleast 50% and tax ore

The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2014-02-03 08:49:39 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
You want to know a big reason people who try the game aren't staying? Here's a simple, obvious one that nobody seems to notice: putting new players in the same chat channel as all the worst/dumb/antisocial players is a bad idea. NPC corp players tell people to go mine and run missions 24/7 and compared to the general eve population have about zilcho idea of what they're doing. So, of course, the first channel a new player sees is filled with these bottom-of-the-barrel numbskulls.

Delete NPC corp chat and find a suitable replacement that puts new players in a channel with new players and people who will actually help them. Don't expose them to the horrible brain-plague that is NPC corp chat if you want them to stay. Failing that, simply kick characters older than 3 months out of the initial NPC corp chat channel and put them in another one.

New players aren't going to stick around if they get told to simultaneously shield, armor, and hull tank their ships, or that mining veldspar in highsec for the equivalent of 4 cents an hour is a legitimate "profession" (christ will you STOP ADVERTISING THIS), or to mix their guns so they can hit everything, or that they'll get blown up horribly and have no fun in lowsec or nullsec. But that's exactly what the vast majority of people in NPC corp chat say is how the game works.



+1 .. to hell + 10000 That is the true main reason of player retention issues in eve. The absolute majority of longe term players that create content are ones that left npc corp within 2 weeks... with not much time to brain contamination.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2014-02-03 08:51:35 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I recall at some point there was some talk about NPC corps from CCP, I don't remember the source, I believe it was one of the CSM meeting minute releases over the years, in which they were under the same impression as the op. Then they actually spent some time there and found that to not be the case. I've never seen many of the examples commonly touted as the norm, and on the occasions the ones I have seen are posted, they are usually corrected in short order.

And really, if you think it that much of an issue, anyone with an open character slot is free to jump in and do something about it.



the ones that are loosing money are CCP. they are the ones that need to do it.

Just make a new character and check. It does not pass 20 minutes without someone sayign you should NEVEr go to low sec.. or that you should NEVER make your own corp or shoudl NEVER join a player corp.. all to avoid the terrible griefers.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2014-02-03 08:53:55 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Newbies have a separate corp. It's a lot different from the NPC corps you get when you leave a corp.

The rookie NPC corps are actually pretty good. Players are generally helpful.

What they need to do is stay away from the forums.

All the stupid gathers here. You need only read comments in this thread.



On the contrary. The players of the game, the ones that do not hide are here not in NPC corps.

Rookie corps mostlya re full of peopel telling you to never join player corps and never go to low sec. They steal you the chance of gettign into the game beforeyou become a coward.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-02-03 08:54:16 UTC
Sooooo...OP got ganked by an NPC corp player is all buthurt he can't wardec him?
Either that, or his search button is broken
Either way, 0/10 troll. Please, at least be original.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-02-03 08:56:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
The OPs experience does not correlate at all with mine.

STI corp chat is generally a pleasant place where you get good solid advice on just about any question. Many consider the flow in the actual Rookie Help channel too fast, and prefer using corp chat instead.

Also, it is considered a neutral ground, where alts of grunts belonging to opposing factions can discuss battles and perspectives from both sides, which often stimulates an interest in new players to participate in that sort of things.

It should be noted, that at one time, years ago, which rookie corp you started in was dependent on the "career" you selected during character creation. This resulted in certain corporations containing a higher percentage of players with certain game aspect interests and mentality.

SWA (which the OP belong to) suffered from this, while STI and SAK, though fewer in members, generally attracted people with a bit "deeper" mindset. I thought these differences had disappeared over the years as people now get randomly assigned to rookie corps, but perhaps not.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-02-03 09:00:39 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I recall at some point there was some talk about NPC corps from CCP, I don't remember the source, I believe it was one of the CSM meeting minute releases over the years, in which they were under the same impression as the op. Then they actually spent some time there and found that to not be the case. I've never seen many of the examples commonly touted as the norm, and on the occasions the ones I have seen are posted, they are usually corrected in short order.

And really, if you think it that much of an issue, anyone with an open character slot is free to jump in and do something about it.



the ones that are loosing money are CCP. they are the ones that need to do it.

Just make a new character and check. It does not pass 20 minutes without someone sayign you should NEVEr go to low sec.. or that you should NEVER make your own corp or shoudl NEVER join a player corp.. all to avoid the terrible griefers.
Look again at my corp. CCP didn't find what you are talking about in abundance. Nor do I. I do see it happen to some degree at times, but I also see people talking about what they are doing in lowsec at that point in time and are enjoying it. Or giving a play by play of a fight involving another FNA member they are spectating, then congratulating them on the win. I see sound fitting advised far more often than bad advise, and I see more people already in player corps say noobs shouldn't create corps due to their lack of game knowledge here on the forums than I do in NPC chat.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#56 - 2014-02-03 09:22:12 UTC
You know, sometimes, this game really surprises you.

A month ago, I would've instantly disregarded this topic as rubbish, and not given it a second thought. But in the aftermath of B-R and after spending a considerable amount of time in the rookie npc corps this week, this idea amazingly doesn't seem all that unreasonable anymore.

At just about any given moment, I can pull up a npc corp chat and see terrible advice being given. Just terrible. And I'm sorry, but CAS isn't some magical exception. Not even an hour ago, before writing this, I tested the CAS chat to see how long it would take for something I thought qualified as bad advice to scroll by. Time: ~5 minutes.

Session started: 2014.02.03 08:27:23

[ 2014.02.03 08:32:27 ] Dracko88 > lol I'm thinking of going to low sec for some fun, I'm itching to try pvp before ccd
[ 2014.02.03 08:32:50 ] Sandor Kurovsky > don't. it won't be the same at all.

This is not an isolated example. I've now seen dozens upon dozens of instances of folks advising ppl to never go to low/null, that folks who pvp are sociopaths, that anyone who shoots shuttles is evil, that missions should be predictable and never change, tank all the things, just on and on. I hate to say it, but these corps apparently collect a lot of the people who fail at EVE. And I mean you can try to combat some of these specific instances, and I have, but this mindset is engrained in those guys. And you can't be everywhere at once.

What's worse is that some npc corps, like CAS, advise new players NOT to leave npc corps. I've seen them giving this advice repeatedly over the last couple days....

Here's an exchange that occurred just a brief 10 minutes after the one cited prior:

[ 2014.02.03 08:42:18 ] Dakota Slim > Khadur en Tilavine one slight drawback is that to do FW, you would have to leave CAS to join one of the militia corps
[ 2014.02.03 08:42:34 ] Khadur en Tilavine > oh....
[ 2014.02.03 08:42:53 ] Khadur en Tilavine > IDK bout that....
[ 2014.02.03 08:42:53 ] Dakota Slim > Khadur en Tilavine & once you leave CAS, you can never rejoin with that char

Oh no. Heaven forbid a new player should leave CAS to try FW. We can't have that. Advise against.

While I'm still not sure I agree that npc corp chat needs to be eradicated, after this week, I'd probably be more inclined to support some kind of concerted effort to disincentivize making noob npc corps a permanent home. And I think the bad advice those guys are giving new players is bad for EVE. I mean, comeon, these guys are so entrenched that they petition CCP when corps drop recruitment advertisements in their channel (just once) or if anyone at all lets new players know about the larger EVE community (in any way) beyond npc corp chat. They literally are protecting their npc corp from, well, EVE.

I'll just say that imo, what I saw this week is, at best, worrisome. It demands attention.

YK
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-02-03 09:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
Hate to point out the obvious, but if player corps were better then NPC corps, more people would join them. OP just mad people don't like his.

NPC corps are one of the best and more unique features of any MMO, its too bad CCP doesn't expand on with tools to encourage , as one example, NPC corp fleets.

Just to point out something else that should be obvious, the reason you don't get "bad" advice such as "don't go to null/low" in non-NPC corps is because player corps are made for low/null/ and w-space. This doesn't mean that NPC players aren't all over places outside of highsec.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#58 - 2014-02-03 10:05:03 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
putting new players in the same chat channel as all the worst/dumb/antisocial players is a bad idea.


I agree with you captain foivos. Putting brand new players to EVE into a channel full of bad/dumb/antisocial/ugly/fat/petty/broke/funny-smelling/etc. players like you and me is a very bad idea. Unfortunately, there is nowhere in game where boogie men like you and me could not access them. If they want to play EVE, they have to learn to deal with the likes of us. What you are really calling for is a nerf to US and a nerf to human-to-human interaction . . . and I think that is where our agreement ends.

Pius Rova wrote:
Not all npc starter corps are as bad as SWA


NO corp in the galaxy is as bad as SWA.
Boltorano
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2014-02-03 10:19:32 UTC
Pretty much everyone I know who was in CAS back in 2004-2006 who has put alts in there recently agrees that it's just as bad as all the others now.
Kharamete
Royal Assent
#60 - 2014-02-03 10:23:52 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Simple solution is to differentiate npc corps and npc starter corps. Something that should have been done 10 years ago.


Yeah, I've been banging on about this for years. There are already two tiers of NPC corps in game.

There are academy corps like Federal Navy Academy and Hedion University, and then there are 'regular' NPC corps like The Scope or something like that. When you sign up, you get put in the first tier, but if you leave that first corp you can never go back to it. That's how it should be - but it should be automated so that after a certain time, you are moved from an 'academy corp' to a second tier NPC corp. Say after six months.

Then you can make the second tier NPC corps dec-able.

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