These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

I don't see where skill is involved with EVE Online.

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2014-02-01 06:49:43 UTC
Gaj Butler wrote:
I've been playing now for a few weeks and tbh every one I see in PVP just has faction stuff. Since you can buy ISK, EVE is really just pay to win, you can just buy yourself to the top, just get all the best gear and it doesn't matter if you lose it as you can just buy more with real money. .

try it. it's not as easy as you think to drop money on this game a "win". Of course that all depends on how you define winning.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Rastafarian God
#62 - 2014-02-01 07:21:59 UTC
Before we finally had enough of our BS highsec alliance, we ran into something like this. AKA a play to win guy thinking he could take is.

Im not going to name names.. but our alliance was a highsec one and even participated in an alliance tourney. Although when it was all said and done... there was more BS then use so we left.

Some guy that went full PTW bought an account and wardecced our smaller corp. Not sure how that worked since we where in an alliance but whatever.

He immediately went after our POS in VERY expensive ships. The handfull of us, being experienced, fought him off in cheap stuff. By the time he attacked in force a second tme with help by more PTW accounts... the alliance was there with us and we rapped him... all still in cheap stuff.

So ya.. there is no PTW in EVE. Yes you can pay to buy things faster. But you can not pay to "win".

Serene Repose
#63 - 2014-02-02 16:49:37 UTC
I've heard kids give better arguments against brushing their teeth.
How come my stupid posts don't get this much attention?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2014-02-02 18:22:59 UTC
It's not skill in the sense of "see dude in the window 10 meters left, turn and put bullet in his face". You have to be a strategist, a tactician, you have to know what your ship can do.

Say, there is a general in a military. He is about 50 years old, and probably is nowhere near as competitive with a gun as most of the younger grunts (because of his age). However, he is still an extremely valuable asset due to his strategic and tactical genius. This is the EvE "skill scenario".

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Mag's
Azn Empire
#65 - 2014-02-02 18:37:36 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
I've heard kids give better arguments against brushing their teeth.
How come my stupid posts don't get this much attention?

Mine try the 'Yes dad, I have done them.' But so far have not realised I feel the heads of their brushes before asking. Lol
When that stops working, I'll simply move on to actual inspection. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2014-02-03 01:38:20 UTC
Batelle wrote:
I feel like this is a copy paste job from a troll thread I've seen before.


I think you have that backwards.

But yeah this THREAD now makes sense after finding this one.
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#67 - 2014-02-03 01:47:30 UTC
Eaphod wrote:


I can't believe I even made this far into your post, but I stopped reading after that line. If you don't know or can't remember something as simple as them being called corporations, then you obviously don't know enough about the game to comment on PVP skill.


I cant believe you wrote all those words because someone used a different word that has a similar meaning.

Your a terrible person.
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#68 - 2014-02-03 02:15:17 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
The OP is the type of person that thinks chess doesn't take skill.

It doesn't if you play against kids in pre-school.

This poster is the type of person who doesn't consider SP difference.


I sure bet my 8m SP in Jump skills /capital skills will help us in a frig 1v1

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#69 - 2014-02-03 02:17:27 UTC
Gaj Butler wrote:
the top


beeleevin in dis is y u r not havin fun

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#70 - 2014-02-03 03:02:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
Gaj Butler wrote:
At this point I'll just be waiting for Star Citizen to do Space Combat well, unlike EVE.


OP is sort of correct. "Skill" in EvE comes down to tactics and quick mouse clicks, and most of the tactics are decided before the battle is even started. If you want actual dogfighting, strictly player versus player skill, with their toon stats not mattering, then yeah, Star Citizen probably is your better choice.

As for complaining about pay-to-win, well, welcome to new age of MMOs. Name a game that doesn't have golden bullets anymore? Complaining about P2W is like complaining about corrupt politicians. Gripe all you want, but it's never going to change for the better.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Antihrist Pripravnik
Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity
Stain Neurodiverse Democracy
#71 - 2014-02-03 05:04:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Here's one (a bit old,but anyway...) example of skill in EVE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlFQ4jL-HBg

This one shows that if you have the skill, you don't need anything more than a rookie ship:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLTLDJd_qEk

... or a single bomber:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLtHzH3uWis

Here's another example of skill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISvmezI9dOU

And another one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0FdO7pjMkY

Want to see and hear the exact skills and how they are applied? See this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMFahR4wXTg
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrYe_4vHzgE

There are hundreds of videos showing pure skill applied in the game.
Decian Cor
Stronghelm Corporation
Solyaris Chtonium
#72 - 2014-02-03 05:52:24 UTC
Gaj Butler wrote:
I've been playing now for a few weeks and tbh every one I see in PVP just has faction stuff. Since you can buy ISK, EVE is really just pay to win, you can just buy yourself to the top, just get all the best gear and it doesn't matter if you lose it as you can just buy more with real money. This ruins the game really, there is no feeling of loss as no time has been put in to get anything, I bet most people in PVP just buy their way to it. The exception is the large guilds or whatever you call them in this game, they're always the exception, they're so big they can just own large portions of real estate and never be out of pocket.

When you get into combat, EVE never has skilled fighters, it is all who has paid more, who has more friends or which ship counters the other... there is never skill. On top of that you have to wait ages for skills to train....... why? Why am I wasting my life here? My friends who got me into the game, just tend to login to put a new skill on train and log out. It is a pointless passive system that really is not a good mechanic at all, no one finds it fun and it means skills don't require skill to train. I mean if it was like taking a medical test in America's Army 2, then yeah, that is training, how this game does it though... just tedious for all.

I just do not find any redeeming quality to combat in EVE, to me it is pay to win, buy a character with skills, buy isk to get the best stuff...

At this point I'll just be waiting for Star Citizen to do Space Combat well, unlike EVE.



While the meta-game is often-times predictable, it's much the same in any other game that many people already play. There is always a style of playing that is modeled after because it works the best.

I will admit that I am a noob, and since I just started eve a few months ago and knew that I couldn't 'play to pay' just yet, bought 2 plex with my first subscription.

Would you really rather sit at your desktop for 8 hours straight and right click things in order to train a skill?

Because that would totally be way more fun....you should go play WoW.


Sometimes I wonder if people even use their brain before posting here.

[u]Unfiltered for the masses.[/u]

http://imgur.com/mzSl1Ie
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2014-02-03 07:53:26 UTC
This is a non-sequitur.

Simply- it's not the faction stuff that determined the outcome of the fight. This is a false assumption and the entire post crumbles because of it.

In many MMO's this is indeed often the case. Spending more does influence the outcome. But in Eve, the opposite is usually true.

For example- by far the most expensive and rare sub-caps in Eve are the PvE-fit mission/incursion/anom runners that will flee in terror at the slightest hint of PvP. Despite being the same class of warship, often fit to the gills compared to PvP fittings- they are utterly incapable of defense against even modest player attacks.
I personally own a kill mail on a Fleet Issue Typhoon with just my Stiletto and a buddy in a Rifter.

Pretty much the last step in a PvP encounter is actually targeting and shooting someone. Most fights are won or lost long before you even landed on grid.

Do not confuse lack of talent for economic disadvantage.
Effect One
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-02-03 09:20:06 UTC
OP, please spend a couple hundred [insert currency here] on PLEX and buy the ship of your dreams. I'd be happy to duel you with a frigate or cruiser or something.

Hit me up in game.

'This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense' - CCP Falcon
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2014-02-03 09:23:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Gaj Butler wrote:
I've been playing now for a few weeks and tbh every one I see in PVP just has faction stuff. Since you can buy ISK, EVE is really just pay to win, you can just buy yourself to the top, just get all the best gear and it doesn't matter if you lose it as you can just buy more with real money. This ruins the game really, there is no feeling of loss as no time has been put in to get anything, I bet most people in PVP just buy their way to it. The exception is the large guilds or whatever you call them in this game, they're always the exception, they're so big they can just own large portions of real estate and never be out of pocket.

When you get into combat, EVE never has skilled fighters, it is all who has paid more, who has more friends or which ship counters the other... there is never skill. On top of that you have to wait ages for skills to train....... why? Why am I wasting my life here? My friends who got me into the game, just tend to login to put a new skill on train and log out. It is a pointless passive system that really is not a good mechanic at all, no one finds it fun and it means skills don't require skill to train. I mean if it was like taking a medical test in America's Army 2, then yeah, that is training, how this game does it though... just tedious for all.

I just do not find any redeeming quality to combat in EVE, to me it is pay to win, buy a character with skills, buy isk to get the best stuff...

At this point I'll just be waiting for Star Citizen to do Space Combat well, unlike EVE.



In case you really think that. a challenge for you. Select a group considered high skill, even in high sec, and go for it. Proove that you can defeat them....

I am really sure you cannot, because your posts clearly state how clueless of eve you are. Skill in eve is not the same as in playing quake, its more like playing chess while managing a senate election at same time.

I am quite far from being one of the best, but I am reasonable.. just check my killboards.. around 99% efficiency.. and I don't think I ever flew anything worth much more than half a billion on any kills.

Now.. go for it.. get yourself a 5 billion isk ship and TRY to do the same. Not asking to match one of the really good guys, just a reasonable one like me...

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2014-02-03 09:32:50 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
The OP is the type of person that thinks chess doesn't take skill.

It doesn't if you play against kids in pre-school.

This poster is the type of person who doesn't consider SP difference.



A 2 M sp alt form someone that KNOW how to PVP will defeat everytime a 100M SP character of a carebear that never PVPed before.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Reiisha
#77 - 2014-02-03 10:09:16 UTC
Gaj Butler wrote:
I've been playing now for a few weeks and tbh every one I see in PVP just has faction stuff. Since you can buy ISK, EVE is really just pay to win, you can just buy yourself to the top, just get all the best gear and it doesn't matter if you lose it as you can just buy more with real money. This ruins the game really, there is no feeling of loss as no time has been put in to get anything, I bet most people in PVP just buy their way to it. The exception is the large guilds or whatever you call them in this game, they're always the exception, they're so big they can just own large portions of real estate and never be out of pocket.

When you get into combat, EVE never has skilled fighters, it is all who has paid more, who has more friends or which ship counters the other... there is never skill. On top of that you have to wait ages for skills to train....... why? Why am I wasting my life here? My friends who got me into the game, just tend to login to put a new skill on train and log out. It is a pointless passive system that really is not a good mechanic at all, no one finds it fun and it means skills don't require skill to train. I mean if it was like taking a medical test in America's Army 2, then yeah, that is training, how this game does it though... just tedious for all.

I just do not find any redeeming quality to combat in EVE, to me it is pay to win, buy a character with skills, buy isk to get the best stuff...

At this point I'll just be waiting for Star Citizen to do Space Combat well, unlike EVE.


EVE is a game of planning, foresight and organization. It's not an instant gratification shoot-em-up.

Not all games are about twitch skill.

Instead of trying to criticize the game for not being what it's not trying to be you may want to think of simply playing something else. I don't mean this in a mean way, but you're not going to play Risk to then complain that it's not enough like soccer either, are you? ;p

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#78 - 2014-02-03 11:15:35 UTC
It's funny how you always read the same arguments when it's about p2w games.
"you still need skill", "you don't automatically win"

By that definition there are no pay to win games, because no p2w game grants you automatic wins when you pay.

EvE IS pay 2 win in the sense that it makes winning easier - just like in any other p2w game. The only problem with that is the definition of "winning" in EvE.
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2014-02-03 12:31:44 UTC
Eaphod wrote:
Gaj Butler wrote:
The exception is the large guilds or whatever you call them in this game...


I can't believe I even made this far into your post, but I stopped reading after that line. If you don't know or can't remember something as simple as them being called corporations, then you obviously don't know enough about the game to comment on PVP skill.

I looked up idiot in the dictionary and I saw a pic of the OP...
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2014-02-03 12:46:23 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
You're a new player so by default you're terrible at EVE...

That's just so wrong. I've been playing 5 years and I'm still terrible at EVE...

Can't do PVP well if my life depended on it...