Crime & Punishment

I'm sure that can be spun as a victory for Marmite with enough emoticons, memes, ROI, opportunity cost or KDR talk.

This wild and zany idea involves leaving the docking ring of a station, so it's a little pointless recommending it to Marmite.

First off, I just wanna say to hello to my goonfriends here such as Powers, as well as old highsec bros like Tora. I'm not currently active in EVE, but was bored on Superbowl Sunday and this thread caught my eye due to my roots as a former HS-war deccer. As someone who has attempted to organize highsec against le ebil gewns in the past with Save Jita and as someone who is currently blue to them, let me share the biggest hurdles I think need to be overcome for highsec to properly stand against an organized null entity.

1) Highsec pvpers are too disorganized to effectively go up against a well polished nullsec entity.

Part of this is due to the way that highsec naturally tends to organize. You have many corps all on seperate comms, all with seperate staging systems, with no unified doctrine other than kitchen sink comps like close range armor.

When I organized Save Jita to counter the first Burn Jita, one of the major difficulties we faced was the inability to effectively formup and cross communicate efforts across groups since we had to do everything with in-game chat windows, which was cumbersome, slow, and frustrating. Trying to coordinate with a myriad of CEOs and FCs, getting their 5-10 dudes to the same place and all on the same comms was a mess.

Compare that to Goons, which have full jabber access such that all an FC needs to do is send out a ping for a fleet and they're able to get the right pieces in place and formup in the same station. They're on the same comms, same auth, individuals who don't have ships can buy fitted ships off contract. They're playing a completely different game than you are.

2) Highsec PVPers hate losing ships compared to nullsec f1 monkeys.


Due to the sizes of HS pvp groups, fleet battles where incoming DPS will always be too high for anyone to catch reps other than maybe the FC are uncommon compared to the fights of nullsec. HS groups tend to fly bling and usually as individuals dislike losing ships, since HS warfare is all about efficiency as a metric of success likely due to the lack of strategic objectives to fight over. While, it may be easy to call them risk averse and leave it at that, I think that's the wrong term to use here and rather I think the bigger factor at play is the lack of SRP that null pvpers have been conditioned with.

3) The disparity in technical FC ability and tactical style.


Highsec FCs tend to lack the technical skills required for larger fleet fights. This doesn't make them bad FCs, in fact as hunters, I would wager that they're hands down better at spotting traps, baiting, and scouting than nullsec FCs.

Unfortunately, they aren't used to the faster pace of large fights where primaries are getting two volleyed, the speed that they process the overview once it fully fills up might be slow, they don't have the right tab filters setup, and most importantly, they're not used to broadcasting primaries.

Many Highsec FCs and players in general are excellent combat probers, but lack the quick-draw probe/fleet warp trigger finger that a null FC like Vee or Elendar might have.

4) Lack of overall HS unity.

Individually, even the largest HS groups will struggle to fight goons on their own, but i'm not convinced the catalyst for them to unite together is possible. Save Jita could have been something amazing if all the HS groups that pledged to show up actually had in the numbers I knew they were capabble of. Unfortunately, they didn't and two of the bigger groups at the time, God Squad and Doubletap completely wussed out. Many groups in HS dislike Goons, but when faced with the option of flying with another HS war dec group who they consider inferior versus continuing business as usual and harvest easy and juicy kills, it will be a struggle to get enough groups in the former category such that you can actually fight goons effectively.

In retrospect, I simply don't think that it's possible to expect HS to unite under the same banner in a single fleet to fight goons with the numbers they need since the egos at play and old grudges are too much. These barriers might be able to be overcome and I hope i'm wrong, but really i'd put my money on GSF teaming up with ex-BoB to kill PL happening before all the major HS groups are willing to unite for any significant period of time.

tooooooolllll...im no fan of marmite but i like fighting rvb and goons. let me know when the war goes valid so i can station camp you

lmao, i guess gevlon is imparting his wild imagination and fiction upon others. You had the opportunity to fight, but didn't. I saw your proteus there, when you decided to leave like a coward.

send help need oxygen

After reading that wall of text this is my favorite part,

"Stop being pets! Goons are holding their power because of the myth that they are strong and everyone else is just tagging along and should be grateful for the opportunity. The truth is the opposite: their effort and PvP power is trivial compared to their size. Stop falling for their propaganda and get hard numbers! It's you who claimed the regions for the CFC, you should be reaping the rewards, you should be calling the shots, not that bunch of forum trolls!"

I nearly died from laughter, Gevlon you have no idea what you are talking about do you?

guys i ran out of popcon and soda how can i continue watching this drama with out please help me :)

"based on hours of data crunching that I paid 1bil ISK for even though it is free if I knew what I was doing i have concluded that goonwaffe, a corp who recruits out-of-game and has no in-game activity or ability requirements has a poor kda"
"i probably should have realised this was a self-evident truth but then i wouldnt be able to tilt at my "call everyone pets to win" windmill"

Honestly, your "No it was everyone elses fault I failed" post is going to be so amazing already, I can't wait to see how many more deluded chapters this story has first.

Does anyone have secrets to sell to Gevlon? He needs more nasty surprises and is willing to pay through the nose.