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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1961 - 2014-02-02 19:33:10 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
You made that point assuming eve is a pvp game, which is wrong.
But I don't want to get into that discussion. All people would do is docking up permanently.


It clearly is a PvP game. Even mining and trading are forms of PvP Shocked


You're talking to a group of simpletons who believe the following:

1) The only way to make ISK is to shoot squares.

2) The only way to PvP is to shoot squares.

3) The only way to take a risk is to be shot at by squares.

They're not going to understand.

Just point and laugh.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#1962 - 2014-02-02 19:43:02 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


So the deadliest region in empire has more ship losses than the quietest nullsec constellation you say?

Well then.



a) Not even nearly the deadliest. It's a good example exactly because it's away from lowsec bumming, fw exploits, major trade routes, etc - so that suicide ganking is the leading cause of ship pops.

b) We have loony goonies claiming that hisec is safer than what they have. Well, no, and by a lot.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1963 - 2014-02-02 19:44:50 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


So the deadliest region in empire has more ship losses than the quietest nullsec constellation you say?

Well then.



a) Not even nearly the deadliest. It's a good example exactly because it's away from lowsec bumming, fw exploits, major trade routes, etc - so that suicide ganking is the leading cause of ship pops.

b) We have loony goonies claiming that hisec is safer than what they have. Well, no, and by a lot.


Surely you have proof of this highsec pubbie n+1.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1964 - 2014-02-02 19:48:12 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


So the deadliest region in empire has more ship losses than the quietest nullsec constellation you say?

Well then.



a) Not even nearly the deadliest. It's a good example exactly because it's away from lowsec bumming, fw exploits, major trade routes, etc - so that suicide ganking is the leading cause of ship pops.

b) We have loony goonies claiming that hisec is safer than what they have. Well, no, and by a lot.


Like I said, take a trip sometime to one of the Jita routes.

Sit there and scan the AFK freighters that just sit there for half an hour or more on end.

You can't do that kind of stupid thing and not get killed anywhere but highsec.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
ashley Eoner
#1965 - 2014-02-02 20:11:46 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
baltec1 wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Build link now.

WHy do you believe having a severe nerf to the range and tracking of sentry drones would have no effect on his runs when he even pointed out he was using 100KM range capability? Why do you think that the decrease in regen rate and thus increased risk of drone loss wouldn't result in drones being pulled in more?

I also said that the warp speed nerf would factor in too. You also stated that most of the time spent blitzing was wasted on warping. So how does warping slower have no effect on the rate?

You keep asserting things without providing anything resembling a justification or citation.


The sentry nerf is not nearly as bad as people try to make out and you have a lot of other options in the cruiser lineup. Sentries if used correctly will not be getting shot at.

For warp speeds you can make use of the Ascendancy implants and the WS-168 plugin, on the marauder you also have two free rig slots thanks to its massive tank so slap warp speed rigs in there. End result is a battleship with frigate like warp speeds. This is how I got around warp speed issues when flying my Megathrons in cruiser and frigate fleets.

I use sentries just like I also run level 4s much like I've also ran sites and various activities in Null/wh space. My mission ship took a pretty nasty hit from the omni/sentry/stacking nerfs. I run federation omni links which are now barely better then t2. Between that nerf and the main nerf I no longer can reach the tracking I used to have. I probably require three links now to be able to achieve the same level I had with two before. I'm not sure on exactly how many as CCP couldn't be arsed to actually make the change properly. Seeing as how I ran a shield tanked ship that kind of means I have to drop a prop mod or deal with lowered dps. Stoic ran 3x omnis which means his setup ate the nerf even worse then me.

As for your comment "when used correctly" that's code for pulling them into your drone bay over and over. Meaning even less effective dps. Thanks for confirming that point too.


As for your laughable attempt at speeding up the marauder?

First off you can use those same implants in a a HAC so those are completely irrelevant. Second off using those rigs nerfs the dps of the marauder while still not reaching HAC speeds. Thank you come again.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#1966 - 2014-02-02 20:19:36 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


So the deadliest region in empire has more ship losses than the quietest nullsec constellation you say?

Well then.



a) Not even nearly the deadliest. It's a good example exactly because it's away from lowsec bumming, fw exploits, major trade routes, etc - so that suicide ganking is the leading cause of ship pops.

b) We have loony goonies claiming that hisec is safer than what they have. Well, no, and by a lot.


Like I said, take a trip sometime to one of the Jita routes.

Sit there and scan the AFK freighters that just sit there for half an hour or more on end.

You can't do that kind of stupid thing and not get killed anywhere but highsec.


Like I said, that is not hisec issue.

It's just elite pvpers don't like the risk of the loot not dropping. Risk/reward of popping a freighter simply loses to risk/reward of popping T1 indies. You gotta try going in T1 indy with 100mil in your cargohold, you'll see at the second 0.5 gate what I'm talking about.
Once people would stop using T1 indies altogether, it will be the freighters turn. It just didn't happen yet.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
ashley Eoner
#1967 - 2014-02-02 20:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
EI Digin wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
RISK - people who know what are they talking about understand hisec risks as wardecs, gankers, and oh-****-logi-disconnected incursion moments.
The majority of people are immune from wardecs.

You can avoid suicide ganks by not stuffing billions upon billions of isk worth of stuff into one ship.

Disconnections are avoided by not having a terrible internet connection, and not engaging in risky content in the first place if you feel there is a chance that you may disconnect.

That leaves me to believe that there is no risk involved with living in highsec.
You can't avoid ganks via any method other then not undocking. People gank for profit and for fun. The loss of 21 or so mill is well worth it for gankers if they think they can get tears or some luls out of it. Hell I know people who gank just because they are bored and massively space rich.

Your childlike grasp of how the internet works is almost funny. I can only hope you're just trying to troll because it would make me sad to believe that someone really could be so simple minded. Just cause your ISP is good doesn't mean their ISP is good or the backbone is good or even that CCP's node will be stable. There's been at least one solid case in the last couple weeks where CCP's node went down during an incursion resulting in massive d/ces across north america. There's absolutely nothing my isp has to do with such situations and there was absolutely no warning before vast numbers d/ced. Socket reset due to node issues is completely unpredictable.


What's interesting is we have people saying "DON"T FLY BILLION ISK FITS AND HIGHSEC IS SUPER SAFE" who pages before said "OMG HIGHSEC MAKES SOOOO MUCH MONEY WITH NO RISK AT ALL(although you have to fly gankbait for any hope to somewhat approach our wildly inflated values)!!!!". It's pretty comedic from my view.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1968 - 2014-02-02 20:23:00 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Like I said, that is not hisec issue.

It's just elite pvpers don't like the risk of the loot not dropping. Risk/reward of popping a freighter simply loses to risk/reward of popping T1 indies. You gotta try going in T1 indy with 100mil in your cargohold, you'll see at the second 0.5 gate what I'm talking about.
Once people would stop using T1 indies altogether, it will be the freighters turn. It just didn't happen yet.


The fact that you can afk in space with other people right next to you and live. The fact that people can and do sit afk on belts for hours.

But those somehow don't mean that highsec is safer?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
ashley Eoner
#1969 - 2014-02-02 20:26:57 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Like I said, that is not hisec issue.

It's just elite pvpers don't like the risk of the loot not dropping. Risk/reward of popping a freighter simply loses to risk/reward of popping T1 indies. You gotta try going in T1 indy with 100mil in your cargohold, you'll see at the second 0.5 gate what I'm talking about.
Once people would stop using T1 indies altogether, it will be the freighters turn. It just didn't happen yet.


The fact that you can afk in space with other people right next to you and live. The fact that people can and do sit afk on belts for hours.

But those somehow don't mean that highsec is safer?
You can usually live

Just like you can afk in large sections of CFC space.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#1970 - 2014-02-02 20:33:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The fact that you can afk in space with other people right next to you and live.

Kinda reminds us of a blue donut, isn't it? Like I said, try living in T1 indy.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
The fact that people can and do sit afk on belts for hours.

Try it. See what happens: http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=2508
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
But those somehow don't mean that highsec is safer?

Sitting afk in a blue donut is unimaginable far safer.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1971 - 2014-02-02 20:34:21 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:


Like I said, that is not hisec issue.

It's just elite pvpers don't like the risk of the loot not dropping. Risk/reward of popping a freighter simply loses to risk/reward of popping T1 indies. You gotta try going in T1 indy with 100mil in your cargohold, you'll see at the second 0.5 gate what I'm talking about.
Once people would stop using T1 indies altogether, it will be the freighters turn. It just didn't happen yet.


The fact that you can afk in space with other people right next to you and live. The fact that people can and do sit afk on belts for hours.

But those somehow don't mean that highsec is safer?
You can usually live

Just like you can afk in large sections of CFC space.


The difference is, that if someone comes along on grid and decides that you should die while afk in null, then you basically die.

In highsec, I have thirty seconds or less to kill you, and I die if I try, whether I live or not.

You seriously don't see the order of magnitude's difference between the two?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1972 - 2014-02-02 20:35:55 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Sitting afk in a blue donut is unimaginable far safer.


Yeah?

try it.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1973 - 2014-02-02 20:36:56 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
You can't avoid ganks via any method other then not undocking. People gank for profit and for fun. The loss of 21 or so mill is well worth it for gankers if they think they can get tears or some luls out of it. Hell I know people who gank just because they are bored and massively space rich.

Your childlike grasp of how the internet works is almost funny. I can only hope you're just trying to troll because it would make me sad to believe that someone really could be so simple minded. Just cause your ISP is good doesn't mean their ISP is good or the backbone is good or even that CCP's node will be stable. There's been at least one solid case in the last couple weeks where CCP's node went down during an incursion resulting in massive d/ces across north america. There's absolutely nothing my isp has to do with such situations and there was absolutely no warning before vast numbers d/ced. Socket reset due to node issues is completely unpredictable.


What's interesting is we have people saying "DON"T FLY BILLION ISK FITS AND HIGHSEC IS SUPER SAFE" who pages before said "OMG HIGHSEC MAKES SOOOO MUCH MONEY (although you have to fly gankbait for any hope to somewhat approach our wildly inflated values)!!!!". It's pretty comedic from my view.


That bolded part is not true. The gank "fight" occurs before you undock and you're more likely to lose this fight the more bling you have on your ship and the less attention you pay before undocking. No one said anything you are claiming they did and you're spazzing out trying to prove your own point from nothing.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1974 - 2014-02-02 20:37:37 UTC
I have a challenge for anyone trying to tell me that null is safer.

Get in an NPC corp, get a freighter, and fly it 5 jumps into null. That's it, 5 jumps there and back. See what happens.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#1975 - 2014-02-02 20:41:33 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

Sitting afk in a blue donut is unimaginable far safer.


Yeah?

try it.


Last week I had a skiff hanging at the gate in providence for 3 hours, and lived, blues locking me for giggles woke me up.
At the same time, I had a mate strolling in a shuttle thru amarr space, which ended in a cloning vat.
hisec just isn't safe enough nowadays, unless you have at least 50k ehp to survive until concord comes, while in blue donut you can hang for ages and nobody is there to get you.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1976 - 2014-02-02 20:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I have a challenge for anyone trying to tell me that null is safer.

Get in an NPC corp, get a freighter, and fly it 5 jumps into null. That's it, 5 jumps there and back. See what happens.


Does it have to be the entrance systems? Or can I complete this challenge using any sequence of 5 nullsec systems?

(the entrances are almost always camped -- so if these are your terms I call it hopelessly biased. the entrances/exits to null are generally the most dangerous systems within null)
ashley Eoner
#1977 - 2014-02-02 20:42:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
La Nariz wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
You can't avoid ganks via any method other then not undocking. People gank for profit and for fun. The loss of 21 or so mill is well worth it for gankers if they think they can get tears or some luls out of it. Hell I know people who gank just because they are bored and massively space rich.

Your childlike grasp of how the internet works is almost funny. I can only hope you're just trying to troll because it would make me sad to believe that someone really could be so simple minded. Just cause your ISP is good doesn't mean their ISP is good or the backbone is good or even that CCP's node will be stable. There's been at least one solid case in the last couple weeks where CCP's node went down during an incursion resulting in massive d/ces across north america. There's absolutely nothing my isp has to do with such situations and there was absolutely no warning before vast numbers d/ced. Socket reset due to node issues is completely unpredictable.


What's interesting is we have people saying "DON"T FLY BILLION ISK FITS AND HIGHSEC IS SUPER SAFE" who pages before said "OMG HIGHSEC MAKES SOOOO MUCH MONEY (although you have to fly gankbait for any hope to somewhat approach our wildly inflated values)!!!!". It's pretty comedic from my view.


That bolded part is not true. The gank "fight" occurs before you undock and you're more likely to lose this fight the more bling you have on your ship and the less attention you pay before undocking. No one said anything you are claiming they did and you're spazzing out trying to prove your own point from nothing.
Keep dancing maybe you'll figure out how to spin this later.

It's like he truly believes no one has ever read the crime and punishment section of the forum...
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#1978 - 2014-02-02 20:44:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I have a challenge for anyone trying to tell me that null is safer.

Get in an NPC corp, get a freighter, and fly it 5 jumps into null. That's it, 5 jumps there and back. See what happens.


I would've made you a video right here if I could pilot a freighter. I'd wait till a proper gate camp assembles, of course, then flew it with an escort just to show you it's a lot safer than hisec.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
ashley Eoner
#1979 - 2014-02-02 20:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
Pinky Hops wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I have a challenge for anyone trying to tell me that null is safer.

Get in an NPC corp, get a freighter, and fly it 5 jumps into null. That's it, 5 jumps there and back. See what happens.


Does it have to be the entrance systems? Or can I complete this challenge using any sequence of 5 nullsec systems?

(the entrances are almost always camped -- so if these are your terms I call it hopelessly biased. the entrances/exits to null are generally the most dangerous systems within null)
Clearly he's going to demand you use an entrance/exit because otherwise your risks would be too low for him to win. With the amount of empty nullsec space you could pull this off pretty easily.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1980 - 2014-02-02 20:50:33 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I have a challenge for anyone trying to tell me that null is safer.

Get in an NPC corp, get a freighter, and fly it 5 jumps into null. That's it, 5 jumps there and back. See what happens.


Does it have to be the entrance systems? Or can I complete this challenge using any sequence of 5 nullsec systems?

(the entrances are almost always camped -- so if these are your terms I call it hopelessly biased. the entrances/exits to null are generally the most dangerous systems within null)


Oh, so you're telling me that unless you massively contrive the circumstances, that you'd die? Very interesting...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.