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The Phoenix
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Sigras
Conglomo
#21 - 2014-02-01 19:32:39 UTC
I think perhaps that you dont really know how the missile formula works . . . There are no read 0 (zero) supercaps in any configuration with any combination of bonuses, modules, and/or implants which will reduce any amount of damage from a citadel torpedo.

Unsieged dreads and carriers traveling at full speed will negate about half your damage, but if their dread is unsieged, theyre doing it wrong, and one web fixes the problem for all carriers (two if theyre being boosted by a ragnarok have a halo set and an x-instinct booster), and if you cant muster at most 2 webs then you're doing it wrong.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-02-01 23:50:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Sigras wrote:
I think perhaps that you dont really know how the missile formula works . . . There are no read 0 (zero) supercaps in any configuration with any combination of bonuses, modules, and/or implants which will reduce any amount of damage from a citadel torpedo.


It's not quite true, you can get a supercap to do it, but you need links, overloaded ABs and implants, that sort of thing. It's not an actual problem in gameplay though ofc. Smile
Secret Squirrell
Allied Press Intergalactic
#23 - 2014-02-02 06:03:45 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Ashley Animus wrote:
That is why the phoenix is only good at one thing, bashing stationary targets. And i think it does that pretty good. All you need to think about is at what range you will be fighting and fit accordingly.


Look at the DPS and range figures with TCs, it isn't even any good at that, frankly. The basic problem is that there is no situation where the Phoenix is the correct dread choice.

Secret Squirrell's post is good too, although note that the 20 km DPS window disappears as soon as the other fit TCs. The kinetic damage bonus is a particular problem, given refitting and RAHs. In practice, you'd be well advised to load one or maybe two launchers with other damage types.

The Revelation was obsolete as soon as the Moros got the ROF bonus. The Revelation should have a significant range advantage over the Moros, but the excessive range of capital blasters and the ease of fitting TCs means that it doesn't.


Actually, I was assuming Moros with 2 T2 tracking computers, 0 tracking enhancers. you could stack more tracking computers, but the stacking is pretty rough.
Sigras
Conglomo
#24 - 2014-02-02 06:46:03 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Sigras wrote:
I think perhaps that you dont really know how the missile formula works . . . There are no read 0 (zero) supercaps in any configuration with any combination of bonuses, modules, and/or implants which will reduce any amount of damage from a citadel torpedo.


It's not quite true, you can get a supercap to do it, but you need links, overloaded ABs and implants, that sort of thing. It's not an actual problem in gameplay though ofc. Smile

ok, I stand corrected; there is no fit that anyone would actually run that would reduce damage to any supercap.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#25 - 2014-02-02 16:59:38 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Ashley Animus wrote:
That is why the phoenix is only good at one thing, bashing stationary targets. And i think it does that pretty good. All you need to think about is at what range you will be fighting and fit accordingly.


Look at the DPS and range figures with TCs, it isn't even any good at that, frankly. The basic problem is that there is no situation where the Phoenix is the correct dread choice.

Secret Squirrell's post is good too, although note that the 20 km DPS window disappears as soon as the other fit TCs. The kinetic damage bonus is a particular problem, given refitting and RAHs. In practice, you'd be well advised to load one or maybe two launchers with other damage types.

The Revelation was obsolete as soon as the Moros got the ROF bonus. The Revelation should have a significant range advantage over the Moros, but the excessive range of capital blasters and the ease of fitting TCs means that it doesn't.


we'll have to wait for the capital rebalance, i think the revelation has to get a 10% damage bonuse instead of the 10% activation cost, or keep the activation bonus and add a 5% damage bonus too...
Justin Cody
War Firm
#26 - 2014-02-02 22:23:58 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
Sigras wrote:
I think perhaps that you dont really know how the missile formula works . . . There are no read 0 (zero) supercaps in any configuration with any combination of bonuses, modules, and/or implants which will reduce any amount of damage from a citadel torpedo.


It's not quite true, you can get a supercap to do it, but you need links, overloaded ABs and implants, that sort of thing. It's not an actual problem in gameplay though ofc. Smile

ok, I stand corrected; there is no fit that anyone would actually run that would reduce damage to any supercap.



I guess you've never seen anyone bump tackle a super then...and have it reduce your dps to a fraction of full. I have and it works as a damage mitigation tactic by a clever enough sub cap pilot who might titan bridge in to save it. Webs or no webs...bumping moves you quite quickly.
Sigras
Conglomo
#27 - 2014-02-03 01:18:32 UTC
Then shouldnt you be complaining about the bump mechanics not the phoenix?
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-02-03 08:14:36 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
so.......we should buff the revelation :( i didnt know it was that bad.....


Yes it is.

Laser get the only advantage by using scorch and conflag ammo. U dont have T2 capital turrets...

Lasers are EM/Thrm only. Since every capital (typical target for Rev besides PoS) is T1 thier EM/Thrm resists are the strongest.

Lasers have a range advantage... unless we talk about dreads. Somehow Moros and Nalfgar don’t seem to have problems with competing with Rev in that field. Even if they did... should I kite with my Rev Ugh?

Revelation has only one bonus. The other one is just there to keep the guns running, that for some strange reason use the most cap, despite being the weakest XL weapon type (that is without XL Citadel Torpedoes which are broken for number of reasons).

So ye fix Phoenix AND Revelation Evil.
Dark'Rai
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#29 - 2014-02-03 14:14:39 UTC
The Phoenix can be amazing if it's fit with the correct (blap) modules, with 3 webs and 3TPs (yea not much tank) you can effectively 1-2 shot cruisers, especially with bonused information links from a damnation or vulture... rips up Broadswords pretty fast Cool
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