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[Rubicon 1.3] New way of acquiring the Astero, Stratios and Nestor

First post First post
Author
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#121 - 2014-02-01 14:24:17 UTC
I actually like the idea, think it gives relevance to drone plexes and also drone space has non-officer items that are decent.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#122 - 2014-02-01 14:28:46 UTC
Nice idea, but I would add the possibility for BPC's to drop from hi-sec drone sites too...maybe the astero BPC chips in Hi-sec, astero and stratios in low-sec, and atero, stratios, and nestor chips from null sec.
zerquse
Stellar Masons
Spades Alliance
#123 - 2014-02-01 14:30:35 UTC  |  Edited by: zerquse
Hey Rise. Sentients are like Unicorns. So what is the drop chance?
Also any chance rogue drone could get drone poo back, not at what it was but comparable in isk value to other rat drop tables?
Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
#124 - 2014-02-01 17:41:13 UTC
zerquse wrote:
Hey Rise. Sentients are like Unicorns. So what is the drop chance?
Also any chance rogue drone could get drone poo back, not at what it was but comparable in isk value to other rat drop tables?


Probably next to nill. I can count the number of sents I've seen in drone scan sites on one hand since they were intro'd.
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2014-02-01 17:47:03 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Uh, so you are saying that you should shoot sisters ships and give the SOE the loot from sisters ships and get given BPC's....
Or are you suggesting missions against the SOE what drop BPC's?

What exactly is wrong with the logic of 'SOE take a Rogue Drone control chip, and in return give you this ship BPC that just happens to have bonuses to drone control.... by pure co-incidence, they totally aren't using Rogue drone technology to help them with the ships at all......'

That argument could be spun for practically any ship which uses drones in eve then and is really a little weak. I would agree CCP need to make a more solid link here. Why specifically is this ship tied to rogue drones other than the obvious of helping the drone regions out?


Ever run the SOE epic arc? An entire Rogue drone hive warps in at the end and the SOE agent seems strangely unconcerned. Neither of them attacks the other.

Also, SOE just came out with a whole new range of drone-centric boats.

How much more connection do you need?
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#126 - 2014-02-01 19:57:51 UTC
Here's a thought, SoE are dedicated to the preservation of life (allegedly)...What if they internally define life as anything sentient. They could be dealing with the sentient drones behind everyone's backs :) Soon we'll be running missions to rescue sentients from nasty Empire attack squadrons to prevent Dronocide...
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#127 - 2014-02-01 20:20:02 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Here's a thought, SoE are dedicated to the preservation of life (allegedly)...What if they internally define life as anything sentient. They could be dealing with the sentient drones behind everyone's backs :) Soon we'll be running missions to rescue sentients from nasty Empire attack squadrons to prevent Dronocide...



I like that the new combat PVE/PVP mission system

group A. Kill the drones save the damsil

Group B. Kill the damsil save the drones.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#128 - 2014-02-01 20:30:19 UTC
New text box opens on entry to the pocket:

'0010011100100101110000111110000001010101001110001xffx09x95xc5z0010101100111001010100011101010011001001010'

Computer translates: 'Take the tart,she never learns! Now, if you are *really* looking for a job...'
Kat Ayclism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2014-02-01 22:02:49 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Ah great, so you are giving it in the rear to all those who are trying to get a Nestor through mission grinding. I see crapping all over the normal market dynamics is not a problem for you.

If you want to press the price of SOE ships down to a level that justifies their performances, I guesstimate you have to increase the supply by 3-400%. This will essentially make drones the only source worth considering if you are trying to obtain one of these BPCs, as only fools and people with bad math skills will try to obtain one through the LP store; if they do have SOE LP they should trade them for other high value SOE items, sell those and use the ISK to buy a BPC from a drone dropping.

So, what is the point having the ships in the SOE store then? Why is it priced at 600.000 SOE LP when you acknowledge it is not worth 600.000 SOE LP?*


*:Emphasize that SOE LP is and will be worth a lot of ISK.

Contact me and we can begin your negotiations to rent space.
Blastcaps Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2014-02-02 02:23:57 UTC
Richard TheLordOfDance wrote:
So this is gonna drop from rats?

I like that drone space is getting some attention but you may be fixing something that doesn't need fixing right now... The rats aren't that broken, you can make a decent living of rat bounties, what needs more attention is exploration in drone space.
How about putting them in hacking sites or something similar instead? the loot in those are pretty much useless compared to other regions at the moment. You're better of taking a wh to another region (or just run whs) if you want to have a chance of making more than a couple of millions per week from them.

Just saying Smile


hate to disagree but when I was living in ER, I used to make plenty from drone space radar sites from the aug drones, and found invariably where there's frequently pvp is where you'll find sigs turning up, and I know the region round ER/KE etc tends to go quiet from about 2am eve time onwards so there's chances to find these sites and run them in relative peace.
Blastcaps Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2014-02-02 02:30:56 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hello

I made a small announcement last night on the 1.1 live stream but I'm sure many of you missed that so I wanted to make a post to let as many of you know as possible.

We've been thinking for awhile about the issue of cost to power ratio for the Sisters of EVE ships, and especially the Nestor. A lot of your feedback has been on this issue, with a large focus on how difficult it is to justify paying the price of the Nestor, and we tend to agree. There are a few reasons we ended up in this position to begin with. The first is that we wanted to set the high sec LP offers for these ships above normal pirate faction LP prices. This still stands and the reason is very simple; you should get a better deal for pirate faction ships when you take the risk of leaving high sec. The second piece, which ties with the first, is that Sisters of EVE LP is very valuable because of demand for Sisters Probe Launchers and implant sets. That means the ISK conversion on ships like the Nestor would never be worthwhile as long as demand for probe launchers was higher, which will likely always be the case. Last, we could have tried to make the Nestor powerful enough to justify the huge price-tag. We really didn't want to go with this option and create a ship basically in a class of its own which would cause a lot of balance headaches.

So, here's what we're going to do: starting in the next major Rubicon patch (which I don't have a date for, but is not very far off), Rogue Drones will start occasionally dropping nexus chips which you will be able to trade in at any Sisters of EVE agent for a one-run BPC of either a Nestor, Stratios or Astero. The chips will be called Rogue Drone 46-X Nexus Chip, Rogue Drone 43-X Nexus Chip and Rogue Drone 42-X Nexus Chip respectively, and they will drop at a very similar rate to other pirate faction BPC drops in null sec.

This should provide a nice pressure valve for the prices on Sisters of EVE ships and also give a little boost to the drone regions, two things we are happy about.

Have fun out there and take care of all those new people this weekend Big smile


Glad to see from the little things post that something is at last being done with rogue drones and also drone regions, however devs you still at least need to add a generic loot table drops, T1 etc so people runing drone sites in drone regions can at least loot/salvage the sites and reprocess the mods for one, however you still need to keep working on rogue drones especialy in terms of HS/LS and null as I pointed out in the little things thread else where on the forums, in comparision say in HS, rogue drone sites generaly DO NOT get run, whats the point when they generaly dont drop FA, nevermind anything of worth, if you compare HS exploration complexs for angels, serpentis, blood raiders, guristas etc, even taking into account player population differances in each empire they dont get run, because most people would rather run ANY other combat plex for example that at least has the chance at something decent dropping than run a site where you get nothing other than some bounties and thats it.

How about rogue drone pirate faction ship BPCs? :)
there's so so so much you could do with that idea and a hell of a lot more besides :) (rogue drone pirate faction drone damage amps for example? :)
Blastcaps Madullier
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2014-02-02 10:14:25 UTC
Quote:

CCP giveth, and CCP taketh away.
I didn't see you complaining when they added SOE level 4 agents to hisec. Those agents are the REAL reason the value will plummet. Also, SOE LP will be fine, as it was ALREADY very valuable prior to the introduction of the SOE ships. This is primarily a nerf to ebil nullsec pure blind cartel goon mission runners.


Actualy they added several more lvl 4 SOE agents to hs, there was already one there in osmon, guess ccp didn't like the thought of max tidi/hard capped system with osmon if they hadn't put more soe lvl 4 agents in hs.
As for pure blind, nope we aren't "cartel goon mission runners" thank you :)
Mournful Conciousness
TOHA Heavy Industries
Blades of Grass
#133 - 2014-02-02 17:14:45 UTC
This fix has been greeted with muted enthusiasm. I am disappointed. The Nestor is clearly not a valuable ship.

The market in them will still be broken. It's just that now a few mission runners will have one to sell at a firesale price every now and then. It has been mentioned by others previously in this thread that they are akin to rattlesnakes in terms of desirability. I agree with that, and have openly said this in the Nestor thread prior to release.

Reduction (or a floating) LP conversion rate is the only solution unless you want to improve the Nestor (you don't, but we'd like you to).

Stratios and Astero are worth the money right now. They didn't need fixing. However, the price drop will be welcomed by consumers of them like me.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#134 - 2014-02-02 23:18:20 UTC
The Djego wrote:
A pretty pointless change. There isn't even a reason to discuss power levels vs price when it comes to the nestor. What the ship really needs is a real concept instead of throwing a bunch of bonuses on the hull and hoping it will be useful for anything. The concept is just plain bad and should be redone with a real goal in mind,


What you and all the people parroting this same line do not see is that half the bonuses are just for flavour and "lore"
It is an armour tanked RR drone boat. It is tankier and much better at RR than a domi whilst applying dps not as well as a domi.
If you can't think of ways to make this awesome then i pity you.
The ONLY reason people aren't using it is the cost.
If it were 7-800 mill i promise you would be seeing these things flying around. (not solo anything though as they clearly suck as solo.) no one will use the hacking bonuses. Almost no one will use the scanning bonuses. They are just a fun bonus for flavour and if they were removed then nothing would replace them as the ship has plenty of bonuses without them.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#135 - 2014-02-03 16:08:02 UTC
zerquse wrote:
Hey Rise. Sentients are like Unicorns. So what is the drop chance?
Also any chance rogue drone could get drone poo back, not at what it was but comparable in isk value to other rat drop tables?


The drop chance is modeled on the drop chance in other factions for ship BPCs (Serpentis/Guristas/etc), I'll be watching to see what kind of impact this has on the price and if we need to tune the drop chance up we'll do that.

@ccp_rise

Siegfried Tahl
STCorp
#136 - 2014-02-03 21:38:52 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
... why not allow them to drop chips/items that can be exchanged for LP at ANY faction store?

I think diversifing ways of getting faction ships is a great idea, pirate, navy and SoE alike.

  • BPCs: Pirates drop BPCs in their sites, Navy and SoE sell thiers in their LP shops like they do now.

  • Drone chip exchange: make all factions exchange chips for ships.

  • Ship prototype: posted in my T2.5 Ships thread, the idea is a new exploration site where there is a ship graveyard and you come in to find repairable ship, and you then tow it into station for fixes and repairs. Not necessarily ancient ships like thread is about. Imagine a site where two pirate factions battle took place, or navy vs pirates, or navy vs drones. And not all ships been destroyed and turned into wrecks, some pilots may have ejected and left the ship to be boarded or towed.
Mournful Conciousness
TOHA Heavy Industries
Blades of Grass
#137 - 2014-02-04 00:54:24 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
The Djego wrote:
A pretty pointless change. There isn't even a reason to discuss power levels vs price when it comes to the nestor. What the ship really needs is a real concept instead of throwing a bunch of bonuses on the hull and hoping it will be useful for anything. The concept is just plain bad and should be redone with a real goal in mind,


What you and all the people parroting this same line do not see is that half the bonuses are just for flavour and "lore"
It is an armour tanked RR drone boat. It is tankier and much better at RR than a domi whilst applying dps not as well as a domi.
If you can't think of ways to make this awesome then i pity you.
The ONLY reason people aren't using it is the cost.
If it were 7-800 mill i promise you would be seeing these things flying around. (not solo anything though as they clearly suck as solo.) no one will use the hacking bonuses. Almost no one will use the scanning bonuses. They are just a fun bonus for flavour and if they were removed then nothing would replace them as the ship has plenty of bonuses without them.


Would we really see these being used at 700-800m each? I just can't see it happening at that price.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
Mean Coalition
#138 - 2014-02-04 14:06:42 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
Silvetica Dian wrote:
The Djego wrote:
A pretty pointless change. There isn't even a reason to discuss power levels vs price when it comes to the nestor. What the ship really needs is a real concept instead of throwing a bunch of bonuses on the hull and hoping it will be useful for anything. The concept is just plain bad and should be redone with a real goal in mind,


What you and all the people parroting this same line do not see is that half the bonuses are just for flavour and "lore"
It is an armour tanked RR drone boat. It is tankier and much better at RR than a domi whilst applying dps not as well as a domi.
If you can't think of ways to make this awesome then i pity you.
The ONLY reason people aren't using it is the cost.
If it were 7-800 mill i promise you would be seeing these things flying around. (not solo anything though as they clearly suck as solo.) no one will use the hacking bonuses. Almost no one will use the scanning bonuses. They are just a fun bonus for flavour and if they were removed then nothing would replace them as the ship has plenty of bonuses without them.


Would you please be so kind to make list where a 900M domi with even less range and a awful cap would be a super duper awesome thing and well worth the price tag? Most people simply come up with uses, where other ships are a lot better, not even depending on price, because they are unfamiliar with the "field of use" they could see the ship in and what other hulls are currently used there.

As for pvp, a domi is much more cost effective, got the better range/tracking and tank isn't so much different thx to the extra low. Also if you really want a lot RR you can simply use a carrier.

As for pve, marauders are a lot better as practical RR BS(even after the bastion nerf), since they can throw a lot more dps down the road and the capacitors are sufficient enough to keep RR and weapon dps up without lots of rigs and cap mods, different to the Nestor. They also got enough target slots, proper fitting to got with guns + rr(paladin did need large energy weapon rigging 5 back in the days for HQ setups, but fair enough) and good tanks with the T2 resist profile.

The hull can't sustain a full RR high slot layout in any practical setup, it even lacks the cap to do a useful mix with lasers, it doesn't have enough target slots to RR and shoot at the same time or any utility bonuses(like for painters, remote sensor boosters, remote tracking comps etc.) that would be interesting once you could run it halve way sufficient on cap recharge.

Btw I am not much concerned that it got a scanning bonus or hacking bonus that might nearly never be used, I see the issues that the ship isn't a particular good investments in nearly every role I could imagine, where a drone BS with a bit more RR could come in handy. This is not because I couldn't come up with a good use for it but, because it lacks important things in the baseline design, what would make it attractive for such roles in the first place. It doesn't use the 100% weapon damage bonus like on marauders to archive high dps with lots of utility highs(what makes them miles better in RR setups), it doesn't sport a powerful capacitor to actually use a mixed gun/rr fitting like this practical in Incs, WH or small gang, because you will have to resort to cap boosters, what limits your runtime and you need more lockable targets in a platform that doubles up as dps and logi, that should be extreme obvious to anybody that flown RR marauders in the past.

All together the design is simply not really good and probably a lot of people will realize this once they actually utilize a RR BS in a similar fashion as I did. It doesn't have to do much with the massive price tag, you can argue about that once somebody actually revisits the base design and makes it attractive beyond the shiny or collectors value.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#139 - 2014-02-04 14:42:52 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
zerquse wrote:
Hey Rise. Sentients are like Unicorns. So what is the drop chance?
Also any chance rogue drone could get drone poo back, not at what it was but comparable in isk value to other rat drop tables?


The drop chance is modeled on the drop chance in other factions for ship BPCs (Serpentis/Guristas/etc), I'll be watching to see what kind of impact this has on the price and if we need to tune the drop chance up we'll do that.


You should also monitor how many drone sites are run, and track chips from asteroids/anomalies vs chips from cosmic signatures. If you assume an independent roll for every item in the loot table (is this true?), then the presence of the chips should still leave the expected value per spawn far below equivalent pirate faction spawn (especially if prices drop due to chips that come from anomalies/belts). The result could be a buff to the income of ratters who were already ratting, without coming close to making drone signatures a worthwhile activity.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

zerquse
Stellar Masons
Spades Alliance
#140 - 2014-02-04 16:55:26 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
zerquse wrote:
Hey Rise. Sentients are like Unicorns. So what is the drop chance?
Also any chance rogue drone could get drone poo back, not at what it was but comparable in isk value to other rat drop tables?


The drop chance is modeled on the drop chance in other factions for ship BPCs (Serpentis/Guristas/etc), I'll be watching to see what kind of impact this has on the price and if we need to tune the drop chance up we'll do that.


I would suggest that they be higher since sentients don't drop anything. besides worthless stuff, and that i have literally seen 5 in 9 months.
Also maybe you overlooked the last part of my post or chose not to comment on it? idk but if you look at drone rats. they drop nothing, yet have the same bounty as every other faction, and do omni damage. so they are the hardest and least rewarding. which makes growing an alliance hard as everyone avoids the drone lands like the black plague.