EVE General Discussion

Just to note, using your words, not mine. you brought up the label wasted range.

The overlap only really works with one set of drones as described and if anything keeps me somewhat tethered to the location that those drones are deployed at, which can be equally used as an asset by the aggressor. and if the ranges were unified it would still serve as a benefit since they would already be matched without effort and augmented with fewer modules.

Except again, those targets can use the nature of your weapons against you. Assuming sentries they can simply be outranged, other drones almost always well within range to be destroyed when engaging successfully, disincentivising their use at ranges where they can't be recalled quickly. The mechanics themselves work weaknesses in to counter the strengths you mention, so why do we need another?

…for turrets, not drones.

The overlap works with all of them. It's more that some drones aren't worth sending out to the edges of drone control range because they're just too slow, but at that point, it's not a limitation anyway for that very same reason.

To ensure that at least one is always in effect. Also, that kind of turning your weapon's advantage against you exists for pretty much all other weapons as well, so again, there's nothing particularly special about drones.

Because of the extra autonomy.

That would either be a massive nerf to drones and/or create balance issues in terms of target exposure.

Turrets are not autonomous.

The real reason drone control range exists is that CCP didn't want to write new code for sentry drones 10 years ago or whatever. Scout drones use control range as a means to determine which targets are eligible. It wass apparently easier/better to have drones check once for eligible targets when they're looking for one than to constantly check their current target and range-from-mothership. I have seen drones follow targets that leave control range once they're already attacking. It works the same with sentry drones, despite the fact that sentry drones don't have to move to attack.

Sentry drones in fact do move, just very slowly. They are exactly the same as scout drones and operate on the same rules. They just start shooting sooner and move like a glacier.

The other reason is that its very easy to get super-long range bouncers and wardens. Without control range as a balancing factor, we'd have dominixes doing 600-700 dps at 200km+ range.

Control range is a terrible bandaid/figleaf designed to cover very old lazy code and very old lazy stats on drones and drone mods. The recent omni nerf is another terrible bandaid to cover up for the fact that t2 omnis, t2 DLAs, DDAs, and new bonuses threw all the old stuff out of balance.

So yeah, its stupid. Blame CCP, because its their fault. For realz. There's no reason for tippia to bend over backwards trying to justify the mechanic (lol "turrets are not autonomous," I thought you said lore reasons were irrelevant?). It maintains some semblance of balance, but thats its only worthwhile quality.

Hopefully that explains it.

Pre 1.1 you could probably get wardens to 250km. Now you can get wardens to hit at 200km but they're in about half falloff. Untanked, of course, and t2 scope rigs are a bit expensive.

I'm not aware of another weapons system that can be directly engaged like drones can. Missiles can be firewalled, but at least the launchers remain in tact so long as the ship does.

You can do that now, but a drone signal range means you have to be within range of the drones, which must in turn be within range of the target and still need to be within targeting range to have the ability to issue commands. Your effecting range is the overlap of targeting and DSR. DCR adds nothing to that, but detracts from committing to drone location while engaging at range.

They don't fully overlap though, and aren't able to be individually manipulated. Both center on your ship which marginalizes one of them.

That would still leave wasted range under the same definition, just not range that is anchored to the weapon's position, but rather the ships position, which as you mention are uniquely able to be separated. Specifically unless I've augmented my DCR to beyond my drone control range and stay within the difference in radius between the areas covered, I cannot utilize a part of my range. Sure, the target may not be outside of that overlap at any point in time, but the same applies for guns and targeting range.

Your long-range turrets can be evaded by flying closer; your short-range turrets can be evade by flying away from them. If he's actually out to kill you, at least you can somewhat dictate how he has to move in relation to your drones so those evasion tactics won't work.

You can, but not to the same extent. After all, with DCR, you're limited by the lesser of the two as you engage you target; with the suggested DSR, it's becomes an addition of ranges instead.

No. The range at which your drones can kill a target are pretty much completely decoupled from the ranges at which you can monitor and engage a second and third target. This means you can manoeuvre to improve overlap and thus reduce the wasted range to zero in any given direction. This unlike turrets, which go wherever you go and where the weapon and the ship ranges are always 100% coupled to each other.

The problem here is that Tippia is linking the DCR to the effective range of the drone. They are independent values, and should be treated as such. If I were to position the sentries, move forward 100km, lock the enemies 100km ahead of me *200km from the sentries*, the sentries would engage because in both instances, both parts of the system are within the DCR.

That is broken. Rationalize it as you might, that is broken. Why? Because the drone range becomes irrelevant. Sentries are deployable turrets which can be killed, unlike ship turrets. So why limit the drone range to the ship attributes, as the ship turrets are?

If the sentries are within the drone control range, but the target isn't, the drone should still be able to engage if and only if it's within the sentries' lock range. If it hits or not, that's a whole different matter. Last I checked, any drone will stay on their assigned target, even if the ship itself is not locking it, and drones will also engage any target that agresses the ship, even if said target is never locked in the first place. Ship lock range is not a factor.

Nothing at all wrong with drone control range. I can't believe people still have such a fundamental problem understanding it, and drone engagement mechanics. It is their problem too - the picture on post #8 is rather simple.

3 DLAs only gets you to, at most, 132 km control range. You need 6 to get to 200 km (204 km at most).