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Picking My First Battleship
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Katherine Dune
Slow Chidlren at Play
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#1 - 2014-01-30 02:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Dune
Hey guys. ok basically ive got my skills up, im hitting gunnery 5, im capable of training Amarr and Gallente Battleships. and im capable of tech armor tanking and shield tanking with level 4 support skills

My skills arent the highest of the high. but i have been told that there a phew battleships that allow low skill entry and level 4 mission running

So i know my skills are low and im aware a phew more months of training i could probably do much better or get a tengu. and that level 4's are not easy

But id still like to give it a try

I would like to upgrade to level 4 missions. So i looked into each battleship and there a phew that i like, and i came up with some builds for them

I was hoping that i could come here and get advice on which battleship would be the "best" to start level 4 missions in with the builds ive come up and hopefully even get some advice on the builds

Ive provided EFT screenshots as to not spam a long forum post - I know im not in a place to be to picky, but there are 3 battleships that caught me eye that id like to fly in, the others just didnt appeal to me personally

ApocPVE
http://i.imgur.com/sP6YnBM.jpg

Megathron
http://i.imgur.com/kihGlX4.jpg

Hyperion Blasters
http://i.imgur.com/bGIBUXH.png

Hyperion Railguns
http://i.imgur.com/8iHIJ1D.png

I also wouldnt mind the Rokh. but i couldnt think of how to fit a rokh or what weapons to use on it

Out of those ships i do like the Apoc the most looks wise. tho i do love the megathron and hyp, they appeal to me for some reason in design

As you can see by the build builds im abit of a cap stable freak. so im open to suggestions and advice on the builds and which ship you guys think would be best for me to begin my battleship life in
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2 - 2014-01-30 03:15:09 UTC
Just use a MJD rail hyperion. Armor tank, ACTIVE hardeners, two tracking computers. 5 minutes of cap life, because you won't need to run the repper much at all. If you want cap stable, pick a ship that doesn't use cap to shoot, and doesn't sit at close range, soaking up damage.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Katherine Dune
Slow Chidlren at Play
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#3 - 2014-01-30 03:38:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Dune
Batelle wrote:
Just use a MJD rail hyperion. Armor tank, ACTIVE hardeners, two tracking computers. 5 minutes of cap life, because you won't need to run the repper much at all. If you want cap stable, pick a ship that doesn't use cap to shoot, and doesn't sit at close range, soaking up damage.


Something like this?

http://i.imgur.com/BFwC4f2.jpg

Btw i should menchone i mostly Mission in Caldari space for Caldari Navy. thats why i was looking at the Hyp/Megathron. since caldari navy provide LP ammo for them which is nice and damage type fits the area
Kairavi Mrithyakara
#4 - 2014-01-30 05:33:41 UTC
Before getting into which ship you should pick, there's a few things about L4 missions you need to consider.

Firstly, to be comfortable while running L4s, you want long engagement ranges, a decent tank, and DPS of at least 500 (with DPS lower than that, L4 missions can start to take unprofitably long times to complete, where you'd actually be better off blitzing L3s).

Secondly, laserboats and railboats are limited by the damage type they deal, which slows your missioning rate considerably. To use either of them with a certain level of ease, you want to be where a majority of the mission are either against Blood/Sansha (for Apoc), or Serpentis/Guristas (for the Gallente BSs). For example, you'll do well against the Serpentis in a rail Megathron, but you'll be less than comfortable against the Sansha, and you'll find Angels tedious.

I'd suggest forgoing those deadspace modules; they'll just make your ship an attractive gank magnet, which you don't want to be. Stick to T2s and Meta 4s wherever possible. Once you're comfortable running L4s you could do play around with the bling, but they're usually not necessary in any case.

Now, to the ships; Of the three ships you've listed, Apocalypse and Megathron are more forgiving than the Hyperion, which has a stronger tank, but needs good gunnery support skills to apply damage properly. I quite like the Megathron, I've used it extensively, and I've got to say, fun as it is to fly (and pretty, too), it isn't the most efficient L4 runner. It does very well against Serpentis, Mordus, and the Guristas, but the tank can suffer in the larger Guristas missions. It works okay against Sansha, Blood, and Mercs. Will need more tanking modules against Drones and Angels, and guns don't do very well against the latter.

Here's a Megathron fit that I'd suggest;

[Megathron, L4 - Rail Meta]
Large Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Cap Recharger II

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5

It keeps you at a comfortable range, does good DPS, and can take a few hits. Use whatever drones you prefer; I kept the Hobs around for anti-frigate duty, but discovered I didn't need them much, since the ship can instapop Frigates at ranges of 30+KM. Medium Scouts will be useful for Cruisers, especially against the Angels. Don't get stingy with the faction ammo; Caldari/Federation Navy charges speed things up nicely. You can replace the DCII with an additional hardener, a reactive hardener, or sacrifice one of the Mag Field Stabs if you find things getting hairy. It shouldn't hurt your DPS much.


Finally, much as I like the Megathron, I've got to repeat that it isn't the ideal missioning ship outside of Serpentis/Guristas space, and nor is it all that friendly as an entry-level ship. A proper PvE entry ship would be the Raven, which, in addition to a large shield tank, long engagement range and low-skill ease of use, has selective damage types. And that's extremely useful while mission running, as I mentioned before. It doesn't take too long to train up, either. It is worth considering, as only a few weeks of training will allow you to run L4s against every NPC type fairly quickly and easily.
Katherine Dune
Slow Chidlren at Play
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#5 - 2014-01-30 09:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Dune
Kairavi Mrithyakara wrote:
Before getting into which ship you should pick, there's a few things about L4 missions you need to consider.

Firstly, to be comfortable while running L4s, you want long engagement ranges, a decent tank, and DPS of at least 500 (with DPS lower than that, L4 missions can start to take unprofitably long times to complete, where you'd actually be better off blitzing L3s).

Secondly, laserboats and railboats are limited by the damage type they deal, which slows your missioning rate considerably. To use either of them with a certain level of ease, you want to be where a majority of the mission are either against Blood/Sansha (for Apoc), or Serpentis/Guristas (for the Gallente BSs). For example, you'll do well against the Serpentis in a rail Megathron, but you'll be less than comfortable against the Sansha, and you'll find Angels tedious.

I'd suggest forgoing those deadspace modules; they'll just make your ship an attractive gank magnet, which you don't want to be. Stick to T2s and Meta 4s wherever possible. Once you're comfortable running L4s you could do play around with the bling, but they're usually not necessary in any case.

Now, to the ships; Of the three ships you've listed, Apocalypse and Megathron are more forgiving than the Hyperion, which has a stronger tank, but needs good gunnery support skills to apply damage properly. I quite like the Megathron, I've used it extensively, and I've got to say, fun as it is to fly (and pretty, too), it isn't the most efficient L4 runner. It does very well against Serpentis, Mordus, and the Guristas, but the tank can suffer in the larger Guristas missions. It works okay against Sansha, Blood, and Mercs. Will need more tanking modules against Drones and Angels, and guns don't do very well against the latter.

Here's a Megathron fit that I'd suggest;

[Megathron, L4 - Rail Meta]
Large Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Cap Recharger II

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgoblin II x5

It keeps you at a comfortable range, does good DPS, and can take a few hits. Use whatever drones you prefer; I kept the Hobs around for anti-frigate duty, but discovered I didn't need them much, since the ship can instapop Frigates at ranges of 30+KM. Medium Scouts will be useful for Cruisers, especially against the Angels. Don't get stingy with the faction ammo; Caldari/Federation Navy charges speed things up nicely. You can replace the DCII with an additional hardener, a reactive hardener, or sacrifice one of the Mag Field Stabs if you find things getting hairy. It shouldn't hurt your DPS much.


Finally, much as I like the Megathron, I've got to repeat that it isn't the ideal missioning ship outside of Serpentis/Guristas space, and nor is it all that friendly as an entry-level ship. A proper PvE entry ship would be the Raven, which, in addition to a large shield tank, long engagement range and low-skill ease of use, has selective damage types. And that's extremely useful while mission running, as I mentioned before. It doesn't take too long to train up, either. It is worth considering, as only a few weeks of training will allow you to run L4s against every NPC type fairly quickly and easily.


Its interesting you should mention the Raven because im actually more skilled towarsd that than any other ship with level 4 missile support skills and cruise missiles 3, and full tech 2 shield capabilitys, along with Caldari battleship 3

I was training towards the raven and drake for a long time then i got attracted to gunnery and the apoc. and started heading towards that. then i went back to missiles for abit towards a drake for nullsec ratting

Now im after a battleship, id be interested to see what you'd recommend for a raven starter fit
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#6 - 2014-01-30 09:44:05 UTC
I second a rail Hyperion but not with that DPS. 331 DPS with the shortest range ammo is not going to cut it so I'd recommend training up gunnery support to 4 and rapid firing to 5 and then get your T2 large guns.

Oh god.
Kairavi Mrithyakara
#7 - 2014-01-30 10:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Kairavi Mrithyakara
Katherine Dune wrote:
Kairavi Mrithyakara wrote:
-snip-


Its interesting you should mention the Raven because im actually more skilled towarsd that than any other ship with level 4 missile support skills and cruise missiles 3, and full tech 2 shield capabilitys, along with Caldari battleship 3

I was training towards the raven and drake for a long time then i got attracted to gunnery and the apoc. and started heading towards that. then i went back to missiles for abit towards a drake for nullsec ratting

Now im after a battleship, id be interested to see what you'd recommend for a raven starter fit


Well, that's good... If you've got experience and the support skills for missiles, you should definitely give the Raven a go. And jump up to the Raven Navy from there.

Here's an MJD-reliant fit I find effective;

[Raven, L4 Runner]
Signal Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Large Shield Booster II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Shield Boost Amplifier II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hobgoblin II x5


Switch around the hardeners as needed. You can even drop one of the hardeners when you're not flying against Guristas, because most other factions don't hit all that hard at range; in its place, you could use a Sensor Booster or even an additional prop mod, if you find moving between gates painfully slow.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#8 - 2014-01-30 15:51:23 UTC
Kairavi's first Mega fit has 8 lowslots, thats a navy mega. Which is a good ship.

Katherine Dune wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Just use a MJD rail hyperion. Armor tank, ACTIVE hardeners, two tracking computers. 5 minutes of cap life, because you won't need to run the repper much at all. If you want cap stable, pick a ship that doesn't use cap to shoot, and doesn't sit at close range, soaking up damage.


Something like this?

http://i.imgur.com/BFwC4f2.jpg

Btw i should menchone i mostly Mission in Caldari space for Caldari Navy. thats why i was looking at the Hyp/Megathron. since caldari navy provide LP ammo for them which is nice and damage type fits the area


This is a lot closer. Few pointers. Don't use a shadow serp sebo. Shadow Serp Hardeners are good to have. I would use a t2 large armor repairer however. To check cap stability, you should turn off the MJD in EFT (and possibly even the guns too). 3x CCC's are probably fine for a MJD sniper setup. Cap booster isn't an awful choice, especially if you want it as insurance, but you'll probably drop it for something better once you get the feel for the ship. Also, the hyperion has a nice bonus in that it can field 5 sentry drones while also having 50m3 of backup drone space. Enough for a set of light drones and a set of salvage drones. If you can train up for sentry drones, having a set of t1/navy wardens or bouncers will really add a lot of dps. Use the last highslot for a drone link augmentor so you can have them attack at a decent range. Definitely use faction antimatter.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-01-30 16:06:31 UTC
Kairavi Mrithyakara wrote:
Katherine Dune wrote:
Kairavi Mrithyakara wrote:
-snip-


Its interesting you should mention the Raven because im actually more skilled towarsd that than any other ship with level 4 missile support skills and cruise missiles 3, and full tech 2 shield capabilitys, along with Caldari battleship 3

I was training towards the raven and drake for a long time then i got attracted to gunnery and the apoc. and started heading towards that. then i went back to missiles for abit towards a drake for nullsec ratting

Now im after a battleship, id be interested to see what you'd recommend for a raven starter fit


Well, that's good... If you've got experience and the support skills for missiles, you should definitely give the Raven a go. And jump up to the Raven Navy from there.

Here's an MJD-reliant fit I find effective;

[Raven, L4 Runner]
Signal Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Large Shield Booster II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Shield Boost Amplifier II

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Scourge Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hobgoblin II x5


Switch around the hardeners as needed. You can even drop one of the hardeners when you're not flying against Guristas, because most other factions don't hit all that hard at range; in its place, you could use a Sensor Booster or even an additional prop mod, if you find moving between gates painfully slow.


This is the best missioning ship in this thread although everything the author of this fit said earlier is true.
It is cheap, not worth ganking, has selectable damage type and can tank pretty much all of them.
I use an XL shield booster on mine and have a couple of cap rigs (not that cap stability is needed or desirable in L4's)
i rarely use the signal amp (except on world's collide as they start so far away). i don't use a MJD as if you slow boat to the next gate you will usually arrive before the room is cleared anyway. I often have a drone damage amp in the lows as with my fit (only 1 warhead rigor cata) cruise are useless vs frigs and so i want my drones to clear up the small stuff nice and fast.
Most like the poster of this raven fit is better than i am at mission fits but i wanted to support these points and note some areas where you can alter the fit as needed.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Kairavi Mrithyakara
#10 - 2014-01-30 17:30:58 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Kairavi's first Mega fit has 8 lowslots, thats a navy mega. Which is a good ship.


Both Megathrons have 8 low slots. Navy 'Throns have an extra high slot.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#11 - 2014-01-30 17:37:23 UTC
Kairavi Mrithyakara wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Kairavi's first Mega fit has 8 lowslots, thats a navy mega. Which is a good ship.


Both Megathrons have 8 low slots. Navy 'Throns have an extra high slot.


holy **** i missed that in rebalancing. I guess an extra low is worth losing its utility high. Navy mega gets the extra highslot and the extra dronebay though. Its a pretty good ship.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Katherine Dune
Slow Chidlren at Play
SL0W CHILDREN AT PLAY
#12 - 2014-01-30 20:38:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Katherine Dune
thanks all for the informative reply's and helpful tips

In the end ive chosen the rail hyperion setup with the following fit. the armor rep is nice with 344 and cap stable, and 480 DPS to start with.

this fit is only with current skills. with 1 extra week ( not long ) of training. the DPS will climb over 500 to about 540 and further as i train more

[Hyperion, HypTest]
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repair II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Prototype Sensor Booster, Targeting Range Script
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 400
Large Micro Jump Drive
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script
Optical Tracking Computer I, Optimal Range Script

425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


and i just adore the ship looks wise
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#13 - 2014-01-30 20:43:49 UTC
Don't use an ancillary repper for pve, don't mix cap boosters with CCC rigs. Also Hype has really low targeting range so only relying on MJD (which generally is already questionable) just doesn't make sense.
MaligoLibens
Bath Salt Abusers
#14 - 2014-01-30 21:23:25 UTC  |  Edited by: MaligoLibens
well since it seems like you want more of a gallente ship, i'll suggest the dominix. Its probly the best low SP ship available. This means that you can have an almost 100% t1 low skill dominix in less than a month and still do lvl 4s quite easily while you're training up the t2 tank and t2 gunnery skills for months that are pretty much required for those turret ships. maybe even go directly to the kronos, the ultimate gallente lvl 4s ship which uses turrets. you'll be doing around 600 dps with all t1 except DDA, and since you're always at 100km, you wont be taking any real damage. most missions wont even drop your shields. very noob friendly.


[dominix]
Armor mission specific active hardener
Armor mission specific active hardener
Large Armor Repair
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II


f-90 positional sensor subroutines, Targeting Range Script
Omnidirectional tracking link, Optimal Range Script, keep tracking speed script aswell
Omnidirectional tracking link, Optimal Range Script, keep tracking speed script aswell
Large Micro Jump Drive
100mn afterburner


425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, with iron, thorium, antimatter
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, with iron, thorium, antimatter
425mm Prototype Gauss Gun, with iron, thorium, antimatter
Drone Link Augmentor
Drone Link Augmentor
Drone Link Augmentor

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump
Large Processsor Overclocking Unit if you need it

5x hobgoblins
5x salvage drones
5x faction garde
5x mission specific faction sentry

read eve survival and change sentry drones and hardeners based on missions. upgrade to faction sentry, theyre better and only a few mil. drop an MTU, hit MJD, drop sentries, profit.
Poppy Solarchaser
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-01-30 21:30:40 UTC
GET A TENGU, AND HUG A BEAR.

TENGU'S HAVE CRUISE MISSILE RANGE, BS TANK, AND QUICK

ENJOY :)
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#16 - 2014-01-31 21:05:47 UTC
Looking at your fits, I think your are making a few major mistakes mistakes in your fitting process.

With the exception of energized adaptives, use active hardeners, and def don't use regular frigate armor plates.

It looks like ur putting a huge emphasis on capacitor in these fits. If worried about cap, at low skills cap booster work wonders, even if they're a pain to manage. Using one will allow you to free up slots for nice things like tracking computers, propulsion, and weapon rigs.