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Universe Data Migration Test on Singularity

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Duncan Anthrax
Absolute Order XVI
Absolute Honor
#21 - 2014-01-31 01:11:25 UTC
Bug Report

Open the assets dialog and select a system, right click and choose set destination. A message appears "Can't set waypoint - must be planet, constellation, or region."

Observed on two accounts in different solar system but both system were null sec.
MoonShifter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-01-31 04:42:35 UTC
Quick question: When will the next mirror for sing happen? I just recently resubbed this and another toon and have been waiting for a bit. I would like to help. How can I get these toons on?
Merida DunBrogh
Black Screen Of Raging Defeat
#23 - 2014-01-31 06:01:00 UTC
MoonShifter wrote:
Quick question: When will the next mirror for sing happen? I just recently resubbed this and another toon and have been waiting for a bit. I would like to help. How can I get these toons on?

Really? REALLY?!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=316748&find=unread

I heard reading the forums helps.
Alyssa Wyatt
Bazinga Labs
#24 - 2014-01-31 07:51:12 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

[bookmark] <'Tactical 22222222222555555555km above'> at [gate] offset_by [0km, 22222222222555555555km, 0km]

[corp chat] > Betting ten bucks you can't scan my freighter down!

Would've been a grand exploit, don't you think?


Tbf, this would be laughably easy to prevent
In fact, didn't CCP do something to prevent deep deep safes from being created quite some time ago?
Udonor
Doomheim
#25 - 2014-01-31 08:51:10 UTC
Too much effort to preserve continuity in a SciFi MMO. Just throw it in the same pile a ship rebalancing - any change is a new feature. All change is good as it keeps relations between large alliances and corps from becoming too static.

Storyline explanation?

"Scientists have detected that yet another defect in a series of warp drive (power generation/folded space containers) technology has cascaded through through like systems across the EVE universe transporting most if not all EVE residents into a high similar BUT parallel dimension with a few differing laws of action and reaction in both physics and -- through insignificant changes in the physics of the brain and AIs -- social and government rules."
Udonor
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-01-31 08:53:38 UTC
Alyssa Wyatt wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

[bookmark] <'Tactical 22222222222555555555km above'> at [gate] offset_by [0km, 22222222222555555555km, 0km]

[corp chat] > Betting ten bucks you can't scan my freighter down!

Would've been a grand exploit, don't you think?


Tbf, this would be laughably easy to prevent
In fact, didn't CCP do something to prevent deep deep safes from being created quite some time ago?



Yup 4-5 years ago they revised rules to prohibit travelling more than 20AU outside orbit of outer planets. Don't remember how far off solar plane you can get though maybe its a sphere set by that outer planet orbital radius + 20AU."
Imperator Xu
Antithesis of Flesh
#27 - 2014-01-31 11:12:45 UTC
update the accounts ,they are like 4-5 months ago..
The Legendary Soldier
United.
#28 - 2014-01-31 11:14:14 UTC
Qual wrote:
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Can you pls explain me what is this change exactly for because i dind't understand it well? Whats things it will allow CCP to make.


It will aloow CCP to easier edit Universe Data, such as adding star systems or altering/adding positions of existing star systems items such as stations, stargates and even planets.

I imagine this is the first step towards a more dynamic Universe where things can change more often and esier than they do now.



Since the source data is being placed in a repository, it will probably also provide version control, change auditing, and the ability to roll back changes.

Need to place a high-sec POS? Premade corps for sale, or your corps standings boosted. Trading since January 2012. Many corps sold/boosted - see my thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63128&find=unread
Althalus Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
#29 - 2014-01-31 12:31:50 UTC
If I understand the data migration goal, you are taking data from database to some json (or any format, does not matter) which will be included into your source control system.

So... i'm now wondering, since you say "it will be re-injected with updates into the database", will the static data change ? Will we be still able to just use those data as we used to ? Or will we have to change all queries ?

You also enumerate some data that are concerned by this migration, but is this the exhaustive list ?

EsiPy - Python 2.7 / 3.3+ Swagger Client based on pyswagger for ESI
Alexis Antollare
Phoenix Freight
#30 - 2014-01-31 12:37:11 UTC
I am not able to download the mac patch. I keep getting exception reports.

Help?
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2014-01-31 13:44:00 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
contains, for example, a complete new path finder.

That would be path around obstacles (stations and the like) right? Or would it mean you pimped the tsp solution, meaning "optimize route" doesn't freeze the client on waypointy routes?
The pathfinder is the system that plots routes (Safest, Shortest, Less secure and everything in between) after a destination is set. This migration of data has meant that this system had to be completely rewritten.

Meadowvale wrote:
Singularity - EVE-FEATURE-FSD-UNIVERSE - 8.42.710206

testing Archon with 3 x Done Link Augmentor II (DLA II) modules plus 2 x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II (OTL II), 2 x Drone Damage Amplifier II and 2 x Drone Navigation Computer II modules fitted. Show info from market for Warden II shows Optimal Range 60km; Tracking 0.012 rad/sec; Damage Modifier 1.44x.
After ship launched with active OTL II mods, Show Info for Warden II in drone bay displays Optimal Range 75km, Tracking unchanged and Damage Modifier 5.3131.
When drones deployed with active OTL II mods, Show Info displays Optimal Range 60km, Tracking 0.012, Damage Modifier 1.44x.
Optimal and Damage Modifier is updated only when drone located in drone bay. Tracking is not updated even though 2 x OTL II mods are active or active with Tracking Speed scripts.
Other drones also do not update Optimal, Tracking and Damage Modifier details.

Unable to bug report - error message displayed when submitting bug report "Unexpected error from the bugs service". Bug report saved to disk within game - will attempt to send at later time/date.

Thanks for the info on this, its already an issue that we're aware of. FYI its actually just the show info windows that aren't updating correctly, the actually stats of the drones are correct.

Duncan Anthrax wrote:
Bug Report

Open the assets dialog and select a system, right click and choose set destination. A message appears "Can't set waypoint - must be planet, constellation, or region."

Observed on two accounts in different solar system but both system were null sec.

Thanks for the bug report, we're already tracking this issue and working on a fix for it.

I've updated the original post with currently known issues.

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

CCP Nobody
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2014-01-31 14:01:59 UTC
Althalus Stenory wrote:
If I understand the data migration goal, you are taking data from database to some json (or any format, does not matter) which will be included into your source control system.

So... i'm now wondering, since you say "it will be re-injected with updates into the database", will the static data change ? Will we be still able to just use those data as we used to ? Or will we have to change all queries ?

You also enumerate some data that are concerned by this migration, but is this the exhaustive list ?

What CCP Lebowski was refering to was that the changes made to the universe static data (which has now been ported to files) will have to be re-injected into the database, that the server is running on, so the sql backend still works as intended.

This big change will have an impact on the 3rd party devs, due to some static data export (SDE) changes.
The new static data export for the universe data will be exported to an sqlite file.
The structure of the tables exported to this file will remain the same.

However if you don't have time to change your tools (if you need to make some big changes) there is no rush on doing that, because the actual data in the tables will not have changed between this SDE and the previous SDE .

There will be a dev blog closer to release that will give more detail on this.
Frank Pannon
Emerald Swine Escavations
#33 - 2014-01-31 14:21:57 UTC
Duncan Anthrax wrote:
Bug Report

Open the assets dialog and select a system, right click and choose set destination. A message appears "Can't set waypoint - must be planet, constellation, or region."

Observed on two accounts in different solar system but both system were null sec.



This is also true from the market window. I can not set destination from there, based on the same error message.
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-01-31 15:06:30 UTC
CCP Nobody wrote:

This big change will have an impact on the 3rd party devs, due to some static data export (SDE) changes.
The new static data export for the universe data will be exported to an sqlite file.
The structure of the tables exported to this file will remain the same.


millions of third party devs cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.


After having perfected GARPA's import of the MSSQL SDE over the years, I can only imagine what havoc CCP switching to a whole new format (and then eventually adding stargates to a dynamic galaxy or whatever) will wreak on us guys trying to provide navigation and economic tools. Years ago there was talk of #devfleet and a whole new developer program -- never materialized. CCP is making big changes without supporting the devs. Hanging out on IRC with a few people doesn't count. After 10 years, I'm sure you're all keenly aware how much the game's continued success actually relies on third party devs. How about getting a program in place with a CSM-like NDA where devs can preview changes and actually get their tools prepped out BEFORE the major changes drop on sisi (or on TQ, because that's when SDEs are released). We have years of work-hours invested in certain things. I know Wollari was asking about this type of possibility at Fanfest 2013 (because I was standing right next to him at a pubcrawl when he brought it up).

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#35 - 2014-01-31 15:22:00 UTC
Udonor wrote:
Alyssa Wyatt wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

[bookmark] <'Tactical 22222222222555555555km above'> at [gate] offset_by [0km, 22222222222555555555km, 0km]

[corp chat] > Betting ten bucks you can't scan my freighter down!

Would've been a grand exploit, don't you think?


Tbf, this would be laughably easy to prevent
In fact, didn't CCP do something to prevent deep deep safes from being created quite some time ago?



Yup 4-5 years ago they revised rules to prohibit travelling more than 20AU outside orbit of outer planets. Don't remember how far off solar plane you can get though maybe its a sphere set by that outer planet orbital radius + 20AU."

nope, i still have some BM way out of that limit, still able to warp to them.

never looked about creating them tho, i just inherited thoses so....
CCP Atropos
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2014-01-31 16:30:05 UTC
Alexis Antollare wrote:
I am not able to download the mac patch. I keep getting exception reports.

Help?

Can you provide us with the exceptions? Pastebin is good for dumping the EVE Launcher logs to.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#37 - 2014-01-31 16:32:31 UTC
CCP Atropos wrote:
Alexis Antollare wrote:
I am not able to download the mac patch. I keep getting exception reports.

Help?

Can you provide us with the exceptions? Pastebin is good for dumping the EVE Launcher logs to.

I had this issue too. It turned out I was impacting my bandwidth with other activities: Playing Eve, watching the live stream, etc. I waited until I needed my internet connection for nothing else other then a patch download, and it worked.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#38 - 2014-01-31 17:21:27 UTC
pmchem wrote:
millions of third party devs cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.


After having perfected GARPA's import of the MSSQL SDE over the years, I can only imagine what havoc CCP switching to a whole new format (and then eventually adding stargates to a dynamic galaxy or whatever) will wreak on us guys trying to provide navigation and economic tools. Years ago there was talk of #devfleet and a whole new developer program -- never materialized. CCP is making big changes without supporting the devs. Hanging out on IRC with a few people doesn't count. After 10 years, I'm sure you're all keenly aware how much the game's continued success actually relies on third party devs. How about getting a program in place with a CSM-like NDA where devs can preview changes and actually get their tools prepped out BEFORE the major changes drop on sisi (or on TQ, because that's when SDEs are released). We have years of work-hours invested in certain things. I know Wollari was asking about this type of possibility at Fanfest 2013 (because I was standing right next to him at a pubcrawl when he brought it up).
I think you aren't taking into account quite a key point in CCP Nobody's post, namely:
CCP Nobody wrote:
However if you don't have time to change your tools (if you need to make some big changes) there is no rush on doing that, because the actual data in the tables will not have changed between this SDE and the previous SDE .
Because at this time nothing will be changing in the information provided in the SDE, it was not a priority for us to bring third party developers on board with the change at an earlier date. Instead we've been focused on ensuring this change is as bug free as possible, which is why we are only recently finalizing the details of the SDE.

Regardless, as CCP Nobody said, we will be providing a dev blog covering this change as soon as possible, and are doing everything we can to ensure that the effects of this change are as minor as possible.

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Seth Darkness
Gang Bang You're Dead
Wrecktical Supremacy.
#39 - 2014-01-31 18:04:44 UTC
So from what I'm reading here, moving data from main DB to individual file means that there will be less lag?
pmchem
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2014-01-31 20:49:39 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
I think you aren't taking into account quite a key point in CCP Nobody's post, namely:
CCP Nobody wrote:
However if you don't have time to change your tools (if you need to make some big changes) there is no rush on doing that, because the actual data in the tables will not have changed between this SDE and the previous SDE .
Because at this time nothing will be changing in the information provided in the SDE, it was not a priority for us to bring third party developers on board with the change at an earlier date. Instead we've been focused on ensuring this change is as bug free as possible, which is why we are only recently finalizing the details of the SDE.


I get that many people love SQLite and dislike being provided a MSSQL dump. ok, fine. That's why players post conversions to whatever db fotm. But considering that there are issues with virtually every release's SDE [1] it would be nice if CCP ever followed through on a real third party dev program where we can get things -- even basic things like db dumps with public knowledge -- in advance of TQ release. Even though you guys aren't planning on changing any data, forgive us for being skeptical of that going through pain-free. There were a lot of promises about improved dev support by Andi at Fanfest 2k13 which were never followed through on.

[1]: here are some issues people had JUST with rubicon's, for the non-ccp reading this:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3892346#post3892346
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3896668#post3896668
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3897813#post3897813
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3904861#post3904861
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3941847#post3941847
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4053313#post4053313
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4053313#post4053313
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4152999#post4152999
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4166988#post4166988

https://twitter.com/pmchem/ || http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/community-spotlight-garpa/ || Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
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