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Doing something about AFK cloaky campers...time for a Dev response

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Author
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-01-30 21:05:07 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
15 minutes. Every 15 minutes of mouse inactivity a user should be given a popup saying "Do you wish to stay logged in?", not responding within a minute results in auto-log off.

Not just when cloaked, POS'd up or docked -- enable it all the time.

Remember though, we are talking simple mouse move's in game here, not actually doing anything with a menu or module -- so no whining about 'I shouldn't have to do something every 15 minutes', just move your mouse in game a single pixel to reset the countdown.

Dont do this just to clean up server resources from afk tards, do it for the children.


So, large sov fights like BR would be giant log-off fests when Tidi happens right? Does Eve really need MORE pop ups?

Why so? Someone in a big fight can't move their mouse every 15 minutes for some reason?
Allus Nova
#22 - 2014-01-30 21:17:11 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
15 minutes. Every 15 minutes of mouse inactivity a user should be given a popup saying "Do you wish to stay logged in?", not responding within a minute results in auto-log off.

Not just when cloaked, POS'd up or docked -- enable it all the time.

Remember though, we are talking simple mouse move's in game here, not actually doing anything with a menu or module -- so no whining about 'I shouldn't have to do something every 15 minutes', just move your mouse in game a single pixel to reset the countdown.

Dont do this just to clean up server resources from afk tards, do it for the children.


So, large sov fights like BR would be giant log-off fests when Tidi happens right? Does Eve really need MORE pop ups?

Why so? Someone in a big fight can't move their mouse every 15 minutes for some reason?



I don't know that a mouse detection mechanic would be enough, which also contributes to why a higher timer is needed. It would be quite easy to attach something that would agitate your mouse enough to provide movement and that would be undetectable.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#23 - 2014-01-30 21:39:05 UTC
Allus Nova wrote:
I don't know that a mouse detection mechanic would be enough, which also contributes to why a higher timer is needed. It would be quite easy to attach something that would agitate your mouse enough to provide movement and that would be undetectable.


I could easily construct a fence and place the mouse in it with one of my dogs battery powered squiggle balls in there. The mouse would move for 2 days with no input from me whatsoever, would appear completely random to an observer, and would be completely undetectable by CCP, so you would be correct. I could even construct an AFK mouse with some household items or even some of my childrens old toys that would move on its own.

As for Mr Harkonnen, I believe there are many many pilots who were in some rather large fights over rather long hours very recently that would like to have a word with you.


Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Allus Nova
#24 - 2014-01-30 21:45:02 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Allus Nova wrote:
I don't know that a mouse detection mechanic would be enough, which also contributes to why a higher timer is needed. It would be quite easy to attach something that would agitate your mouse enough to provide movement and that would be undetectable.


I could easily construct a fence and place the mouse in it with one of my dogs battery powered squiggle balls in there. The mouse would move for 2 days with no input from me whatsoever, would appear completely random to an observer, and would be completely undetectable by CCP, so you would be correct. I could even construct an AFK mouse with some household items or even some of my childrens old toys that would move on its own.

As for Mr Harkonnen, I believe there are many many pilots who were in some rather large fights over rather long hours very recently that would like to have a word with you.





Yea 15 minutes timer is a lot too aggressive...if you're in a 10% TiDi fleet for 12 hours and you need to get up, use the bathroom, have dinner with the family, and can't be confident that you'll get back in should you logoff...that's not OK. Having a timer around 60 minutes would remove all reasonable excuses for why you weren't there for even one thing in an hour.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-01-30 21:49:43 UTC
I wish to be one of the most feared pilots in New Eden, so I will leave the wormhole I am in and fly to a random 0.0 system and cloak up. Even though I will be cloaked and AFK, unable to affect or interact with any aspect of the game, the mere fear created in the hearts and minds of players by my presence will cause entire coalitions to tremble and dock up in utter panic. Carebare tears are tasty, but nullbear fear-sweat drops are even better.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet

Bobsled Nutcase Motsu
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-01-30 21:50:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobsled Nutcase Motsu
This is awful.

Someone unwelcome was in your system?

Please, define how it is you owned the system, when clearly you could not deny them access.
Apparently ownership is not defined by the ability to deny others entry here.

Perhaps the gates recognize you as their controller, and ....
No, wait, there it is again. They got in and the gates were complicit in this too, apparently.

Just admit it, your ownership of said system is nothing more than a glorified building permit.

I think what you are really saying, is that you lack the ability to fight someone off without them first scheduling an appointment, so you can call in your allies to help.

If they can pop in unannounced, they can effectively catch you with your proverbial pants down, and start a rigorous case of uphill gardening all over your lovely PvE ships.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#27 - 2014-01-30 22:03:57 UTC
RoAnnon wrote:
Carebare tears are tasty, but nullbear fear-sweat drops are even better.


Its usually not sweat they release. I sometimes warp to a belt in a noobship, and I swear that at times I see a yellow trail heading to station.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2014-01-30 22:18:51 UTC
OP, if we weren't blue, I'd be AFK cloaking in your space right now.

Do you have a reason for this thread other than as a place to store your tears?
Allus Nova
#29 - 2014-01-30 22:28:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Allus Nova
Bobsled Nutcase Motsu wrote:
This is awful.

Someone unwelcome was in your system?

Please, define how it is you owned the system, when clearly you could not deny them access.
Apparently ownership is not defined by the ability to deny others entry here.

Perhaps the gates recognize you as their controller, and ....
No, wait, there it is again. They got in and the gates were complicit in this too, apparently.

Just admit it, your ownership of said system is nothing more than a glorified building permit.

I think what you are really saying, is that you lack the ability to fight someone off without them first scheduling an appointment, so you can call in your allies to help.

If they can pop in unannounced, they can effectively catch you with your proverbial pants down, and start a rigorous case of uphill gardening all over your lovely PvE ships.



This isn't about ownership, this is about actually being able to find some PvP. If there is some dude wallowing in a system we have sov over, I want to be able to shoot him, i don't want to have to deal with his AFK ass for weeks at a time. If he is at the keyboard then it's one thing, but if he is afk he is doing nothing other than being annoying. Again this isn't about protecting nullbears, or even making nullsec safer.

As I said further up in the thread, losing local channel in exchange for an AFK logout timer seems like a good idea to me. Doesn't make things safer, just makes it so you don't have to deal with AFK campers.



Danika Princip wrote:
OP, if we weren't blue, I'd be AFK cloaking in your space right now.

Do you have a reason for this thread other than as a place to store your tears?



It's not about tears, it's about a broken game mechanic. I'm all for local channel going away to force people to be aware of their surroundings. That said, I'm also all for a removal of AFK pilots all over eve, especially those who float in space.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#30 - 2014-01-30 22:37:21 UTC
How is it broken if there is LITERALLY NOTHING they can do to you? That's the real question here.
Bobsled Nutcase Motsu
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-01-30 22:42:53 UTC
Allus Nova wrote:
This isn't about ownership, this is about actually being able to find some PvP. If there is some dude wallowing in a system we have sov over, I want to be able to shoot him, i don't want to have to deal with his AFK ass for weeks at a time. If he is at the keyboard then it's one thing, but if he is afk he is doing nothing other than being annoying. Again this isn't about protecting nullbears, or even making nullsec safer.

As I said further up in the thread, losing local channel in exchange for an AFK logout timer seems like a good idea to me. Doesn't make things safer, just makes it so you don't have to deal with AFK campers.



Wait, you want the one sided ability to force an opponent to work around your schedule?

So lets see, cloaked guy must notify everyone in system he is still active every 15 minutes / 60 min whatever.
Why do you deserve this free intel, particularly when it can be shown to have value making decisions about undocking in a PvE craft?!
Chuck-Chuck Razool is still showing in system, that means he clicked something in the past hour, must not be safe!

You have two options:
1 Take the risk, and get the ore / rats. You might get shot at.
2 Stay docked or leave. No ISK for you from this system.

If you need PvP cover with no notice, I suggest you either get your fleet handy, or use Concord.

I see no need for change here.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#32 - 2014-01-30 22:55:14 UTC
Your dev responese was....one cloak given out as a yule lad present.

Your unofficial dev response if 4 carriers can't rat in a couple of systems elsewhere there are 10's of them spamming pve....sucks to be them but its fighting eve inflation even if only to a very minor extent.

Rest of this issuee....covered many times. Read kb's, jump systems see if they follow (don't follow well then rat away there), yada yada.


make it so some interaction needed and this would be worked around from mild to wild.

Now the game server is forced to monitor random keystrokes and see if the server needs to do anything. Adds to load. SQL with the coding skills is able to move connected but inactive connections to "slow lane" as it were resources so that you can stay connected but not killing the server as it works the more active connections. I at work for example have a few dbs tied to apps that work on heartbeat intervals. Every say 15 minutes SQL works those requests then just goes is that it? Well then holler when you need me, I got other things to do basically.


And the issue with timers is sometimes yes you will sit there for 15 minute to even 2 hours. It be the prestaged cyno's who do this alot. FC thought they'd get 200 bs', 20 dreads and 4 mommies on the cta. Gets half of each if lucky on game day. And there goes thier time table for pos bash scheduling right out the window. Now that cyno is jsut sitting.

It could type in fleet chat to be active....but most times scouts/cynos and fc's I have eeen use 3rd party (mIRC, etc) for this as I have never seen cyno(s) talk in in-game chat channels. Probably because if they did a spyzor in fleet would jump on thier mIRC and tell his boys yeah....player A in system X is a cyno for our fleet, expect company sometime soon.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-01-31 00:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
This is not a new idea.... it's not a good idea.... and Devs have talked about this in the past.
-1 my position has not changed.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2014-01-31 00:40:57 UTC
Allus Nova wrote:
[quote=Bobsled Nutcase Motsu]
It's not about tears, it's about a broken game mechanic. I'm all for local channel going away to force people to be aware of their surroundings. That said, I'm also all for a removal of AFK pilots all over eve, especially those who float in space.

Roll This is not a broken mechanic... there are plenty of ways you can kill the cloaked.. and there are plenty of limitations on cloaking... it's functioning as intended.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Markus Blaze
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-01-31 00:46:40 UTC
Can this thread be moved to the collection thread now? It's adding nothing new to the conversation.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#36 - 2014-01-31 01:19:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Alundil
Allus Nova wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Allus Nova wrote:
Everyone knows the fact is you are upset that you can't feel safe in your null sec home when your have a red/neut in system, possibly right behind you, because you want to do your non pvp stuff.



Ah, we get to the real heart of your issue! You feel the need to perceive safety in order to undock and continue with your life. News flash: Null sec is not safe, highsec isn't even safe, only safer. Eve online is a PvP game with some PvE thrown in as a distraction. The undock button carries with it a fine print consent to PvP no matter what area of space you dwell in. If you need to feel safe in your null system, then your issue isn't with the AFK cloaker at all, its with your system defense force! If your alliance wants to play in null, then it better be damn well prepared to protect its carebear members from all the harsh realities that nullsec can throw at them. If its not up to the task, its time to leave nullsec all together and move to highsec, at least there you will stand a chance with CONCORD's overwatch.



Unseccessful,

No that's not it at all, I would happily trade a local channel away so ALL of null is like WH space, except perhaps with channels for constellation, for a simple AFK logoff timer of 1 hours.

I'm not saying null should be safe, I'm saying that cloaked AFK campers are god damned annoying and they don't add anything to the game.

You mean that they don't add anything for you right? Because clearly they add something for the people doing it otherwise they wouldn't do it in the first place.

And your idea (as with every other afk cloaky sob story) would irreparably damage wh space. A place where afk cloaking provides literally zero issue. If local were removed, just like in wh space this issue would be dead. You would have nothing to complain about with regard to cloak mechanics. Zilch.

This would have the effect of forcing 0.0 groups to actually guard their systems other than only worrying about the crap Dominion sov mechanic of "form a day and a half after someone decides to shoot a structure.

Stop being bad.


**EDIT**

Just noticed that you are in LAWN as well....they maybe shouldn't have picked you up as LAWN used to actually form for HD purposes.....not whinge on the forums about cloaked ships impeding their ability to make ISK

I'm right behind you

Michael Ignis Archangel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-01-31 02:03:48 UTC
"David, give me your rock and sling. Thanks much, Goliath"
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#38 - 2014-01-31 02:23:59 UTC
I like how this is only an issue because you can see cloaked players in local. Lol

Maybe we can kill two birds with one stone by removing local? ^^
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#39 - 2014-01-31 02:57:51 UTC
So, just to give you a heads up on what carnage even a simple AFK flag would bring....


A lone Sabre jumps into system. The inhabitants flee and dock. Mr Sabre finds which grav anom they were mining and positions himself 15km above the warp in, and cloaks. An hour later, an AFK flag appears next to his name in local. Assured now that the lone red is AFK and no threat, the miners undock and fly back to their anom. "he's no threat! He's AFK!" they'll say.

Mr. Sabre isn't afk... he's patient. His prey has just warped and grouped themselves 12km from him. He uncloaks...bubbles them all... and slaughters them solo.

"Nerf!" "Nerf this ****!" they'll cry. "He wasn't truly AFK, this is a broken mechanic! DAMN THAT AFK FLAG!"


now..imagine these same victims... with no local at all.... CCP would have to give us all T2 buckets!

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Clementina
University of Caille
#40 - 2014-01-31 03:02:56 UTC
Just Come out and Play!
Cloaked Frigates and Noobie Ships
No match for the Brave
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