These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1661 - 2014-01-30 18:36:09 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Cool, and when you're done with all that you can join Faction Warfare because that's the best place to see another (this time non-high sec) part of the massive combat PVE imblance. This is simply insane . And i mean really insane. you simply should not be able to do that with frigates, drakes, caracals, hell anything at all.

Still, I have a stack of 20 Caracals in Rens just for that lol. Just because something is madly imbalanced doesn't mean i'm not gonna get my piece of the pie.



The point of alll this can be summed up in the question I asked Infintiy Ziona to answer during his "nulls ec makes so much more" thread (a question he has thus far refused to answer).

Do you think we're crazy? Do you think we can't see our own wallets and do the math on what works best given the actual in-game situation?

How do you account for "professional" PVe players like me (how, weirdly enough, like EVE PVE just for itself) as well as PVP players (like my alliance mates) having High Sec isk making alts? Why do you think we don't spend 100% of our pve time in null sec if it's all milk and honey.

It's because High Sec Incursions and missions for various npc corps (not just Thukker and SOE) is so good that even in situations where it pays a little less, it's worth it because it's VERY hard for people to disrupt what you are doing.

Take high sec incursions vs null sec pve isk making. You want to disrupt isk making in null. Use one alt in a cloaky ship (I don't let it stop me, I put on cloak and MWD+MJD and jump out of system to someplace else, or use one of my "screw your cyno" FoF + warpstabs ratting ships)

You want to disrupt an incursions fleet doing HQs? You gotta either Contest them (takes another 40 man fleet), gank them (need a bunch of dessies or BCs) or pop the mom (60+ member fleet).

it's just easier in high sec. Easier is fine. Easier + the same or just slightly less isk is a massive imblanace that goes counter to EVE's historic Risk vs Reward scheme. As i say, when I started playing, the only thing you could do combat PVE wise in high sec to approach the kind of isk you could make in null was exploit the hell out of that high sec lvl 5 bug....which i did btw...


I think that first link is broken. And the second is a post from Sept 2012 - Is FW still paying out like that?


http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=65348&start=210#p659712
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1662 - 2014-01-30 18:38:08 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=65348&start=210#p659712


Eve University Page wrote:
The requested topic does not exist.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1663 - 2014-01-30 18:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=65348&start=210#p659712


Eve University Page wrote:
The requested topic does not exist.



it's screwed up somehow. Google "Factional warfare missions are currently paying 600m/hr/toon" . Then go to the end of that thread, last post was this week.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#1664 - 2014-01-30 18:49:42 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
I did that 30 pages ago La Nariz. I posted data sources, maths breakdowns and end results.

Given lack of CCP data releases I did make some assumptions but I typically took the high side of High Sec income and the low side of Null Sec income in those assumptions and we still came out with Null Sec having earned more raw isk than high sec earned in both isk & LP, despite maybe 1/5th the people (again high balling in Nulls favour.)

And this didn't even touch on Loot, PI, Moon Goo & High End Minerals. Which obviously Null wins. Because those are area's everyone knows Null is Superior in. Only way to get officer drops in high is to gank over blinged mission & incursion ships. It was just looking at raw isk income then calculating LP income beside that using average LP value.

If you use current SOE LP value then high sec just beats Null Sec on total gross income. But when you consider the population difference, that still means that Null Sec earns more per capita.

So obviously something is going on income wise that doesn't match up with all the isk/hr figures & null sec woes people are claiming. Exactly what that is, insufficient data set to work out.

As for things like number of people a Null Sec system can support at once, you have my support on those issues. I'd love to see a single Null Sec system able to support 20/30/40 different people all at once. That makes it a lot more attractive for them to do it all in PvP ships even with slightly lower income, because it means when that roaming gang comes through, instead of docking up they can all warp together and have a good brawl, because there are enough people in the same spot to actually defend.


No you didn't you referenced things without links, made a huge amount of assumptions, and then stated everyone else was wrong without picking apart any pieces of their arguments. You also completely ignored any challenges to your arguments by hand-waiving it away as "well CCP hasn't given us any information on that." So try again, you have not been posting well reasoned arguments hence why I keep telling you to bring us data and back up your points.

This is what they do...... close their eyes stick their fingers in their ears and go nah...nnnnaaaahhh......naaah because they dont like or agree with your post, and will continue to troll till it becomes locked.

So the bottom line here is CCP nerfed null-sec income because they felt it was needed.

Dont have to like it or agree with it so either accept it or unsub.

Its just THAT simple
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1665 - 2014-01-30 18:51:36 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=65348&start=210#p659712


Eve University Page wrote:
The requested topic does not exist.



it's screwed up somehow. Google "Factional warfare missions are currently paying 600m/hr/toon" . Then go to the end of that thread, last post was this week.


I'll check it out.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1666 - 2014-01-30 19:12:41 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

This is what they do...... close their eyes stick their fingers in their ears and go nah...nnnnaaaahhh......naaah because they dont like or agree with your post, and will continue to troll till it becomes locked.

So the bottom line here is CCP nerfed null-sec income because they felt it was needed.

Dont have to like it or agree with it so either accept it or unsub.

Its just THAT simple


A refreshingly stale argument "CCP did it so it was right!"

CCP also did Incarna and it nearly killed the game, try again.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1667 - 2014-01-30 19:33:42 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

This is what they do...... close their eyes stick their fingers in their ears and go nah...nnnnaaaahhh......naaah because they dont like or agree with your post, and will continue to troll till it becomes locked.

So the bottom line here is CCP nerfed null-sec income because they felt it was needed.

Dont have to like it or agree with it so either accept it or unsub.

Its just THAT simple


A refreshingly stale argument "CCP did it so it was right!"

CCP also did Incarna and it nearly killed the game, try again.


That's good. Keep invoking Incarna every time CCP does something you don't like.

We'll have numbers from HS this weekend.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1668 - 2014-01-30 19:38:43 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


That's good. Keep invoking Incarna every time CCP does something you don't like.

We'll have numbers from HS this weekend.


We already have the numbers. More cant hurt.
ashley Eoner
#1669 - 2014-01-30 19:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ashley Eoner
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Except it's not useless, because tied together with the other information from CCP which I linked in that thread, we can do a breakdown by area on the largest faucet of bounties, and if we use your translation of 'ships' that actually means Null earns even more isk than I calculated since Null rats are worth MORE than high sec Rats. So 72% of all bounties in Null is the Low Ball figure.
And LP can be calculated using derived figures, which I did also.

All perfectly good maths, though I can understand if it is over some peoples heads as it's University level concepts okf accurate assumptions and derived formula's, though the maths itself isn't that complex.



Wrong.

Nulls primary reward is in isk while high secs primary reward is in LP. Of course null sec will show up as being a bigger injector of isk, this does not however mean that null sec is the best place for a pilot to earn isk.

For example the primary form of income in null are anoms, they will on average net you around 90 mil/hr in raw isk, less in poor trusec systems which make up the bulk of null.

High sec level 4 missions however will net you from 90 to 180 mil/hr with the bulk of it in LP.

Incursions will net you 150+ rather easily.

Your numbers do not show anything other than how much isk is being injected into EVE which is only useful for working out if there is too much isk being injected. It is useless for working out the income levels of pilots. To work this out all you need to do to work out what the real income are is to look at the much more accurate info that the game provides us.

We know exactly how much isk every mission will earn you and how long it will take. We know exactly how much isk each incursion site will make you and how long it will take and we know exactly how much each anom will earn youand how long it will take. Unlike your data, ours is accurate, up to date and easily testable
Oh come on you're absolutely exaggerating and you know it. Incursions are not going to net you +150 m an hour very often for many reasons. If you run your own fleets you're going to need 39 other people to run with you (or so) and even then you better hope the incursion isn't closed down like it has been for the last couple days. Don't tell me you're doing VGs for +150m consistently because VGs were nerfed some time ago and even banging balls to the wall you're going to have contests and less then optimal spawns. You're only going to get 1k isk per lp. Sure some people can do better but you have to invest TIME and EFFORT to do so which can lower your actual isk per hour.

If you have billions in a super shiny ship you can probably do 100ish mill an hour in level 4s but once again if you want 1k or more isk per LP you're forced into spending extra time doing research and finding buyers or products to sell. You're also spending time moving those objects and selling/listing them. THis is assuming security connections IV and negotiation IV. You also better have social skills to IV like connections diplomacy and such because rejecting all those missions is going to play havok with your standing with the mission agent. YOu also better be prepared to be stuck in allied space only as mission blitzing will greatly erode your standings with the "enemy" factions (especially if you do the storylines which can pay nicely). If you move to keep your standing up then you're going to be spending time making little to no isk as you grind up to level 4s after the move.

What you're listing is income after spending billions of isk and MANY months of skill queu. Your average high sec dweller makes nowhere near that much. Your optimal situations with bright shiny ships and extremely well skilled characters are extremely limited. Even more so then the earlier sites posted by the goon making billions in a day.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1670 - 2014-01-30 20:09:27 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:
Even more so then the earlier sites posted by the goon making billions in a day.


What goon is making billions in a day?

Fishblades said in another thread that he made 22b in two months - or -366m per day.

Or are you referring to something else about running sites in Null for "billions in a day"?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1671 - 2014-01-30 20:09:37 UTC
ashley Eoner wrote:


What you're listing is income after spending billions of isk and MANY months of skill queu. Your average high sec dweller makes nowhere near that much. Your optimal situations with bright shiny ships and extremely well skilled characters are extremely limited. Even more so then the earlier sites posted by the goon making billions in a day.


We do have those shiny ships and we do put in the research and we have the SP. There is near no downtime in getting LP goods to market. The problem is that the people from null sec are earning more isk in high sec than in null and are thus choosing to do their isk making in high sec. This is not working as intended.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1672 - 2014-01-30 20:11:12 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Even more so then the earlier sites posted by the goon making billions in a day.


What goon is making billions in a day?

Fishblades said in another thread that he made 22b in two months - or -366m per day.

Or are you referring to something else about running sites in Null for "billions in a day"?


I am assuming he is referring to the trick we figured out with FW a while back. We got it nerfed by abusing the hell out of it.
ashley Eoner
#1673 - 2014-01-30 20:11:50 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
ashley Eoner wrote:
Even more so then the earlier sites posted by the goon making billions in a day.


What goon is making billions in a day?

Fishblades said in another thread that he made 22b in two months - or -366m per day.

Or are you referring to something else about running sites in Null for "billions in a day"?
Well the numbers he posted showed that someone could easily do billions if they invested enough time.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#1674 - 2014-01-30 20:20:49 UTC
You know who's not making billions?

All the people who spend all their time in here whining about how everyone else is making billions.

It's a strange world sometimes.

Mr Epeen Cool
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1675 - 2014-01-30 20:22:07 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
3 things you'll need.

http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Zbikoki%27s_Hacker_Card (for worlds collide)

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Gate_Key (for Dread Pirate Scarlet)

http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage (for learing the right mission to do

After that, you need to know what to sell. I'm lazy so I stick to Sisters probes, but probe launchers, virtue implants and of course the ships are good too.

After doing Sisters, you can try these guys and get almost as good isk/lp conversions.





Jenn I am relatively certain that I have both of these gate keys. I will make sure they are in the cargohold of the Raven.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1676 - 2014-01-30 20:22:18 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
You know who's not making billions?

All the people who spend all their time in here whining about how everyone else is making billions.

It's a strange world sometimes.

Mr Epeen Cool


So you've never used the...

*Zing*

......in game browser

Sorry for the break there, I'm in a mission dodging lasers as I type this.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#1677 - 2014-01-30 20:38:06 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
This weekend I am going to go to Lannxsi as Jenn aSide has suggested and run L4 missions for 4 hours. If Jenn aSide would be kind enough to give me suggestions about which missions to decline and which ones to actually blitz so that I can maximize this amount I would be grateful. It will make for a more accurate comparison I think. I believe the current claim is that one can make 150-180m per hour.

Keep in mind that declining multiple missions at a time lowers standing, potentially (eventually?) locking you out from using these agents and thus, voiding the claim of 'sustainability'.


My standing with SOE is 10.00. Not overly concerned about it but I guess I'll defer to Jenn on how often I can decline. Can I go by the 4 hour clock or another clock?


The standings hit for repeatedly declining missions is trivial. You'll make it up with the story lines you do so much more frequently now that you're blitzing missions. In each group of 16 missions you'll be able to decline 3-8 depending on whether you get mats for war or something actually worth running (standings-wise).

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1678 - 2014-01-30 20:58:02 UTC
Jenn - I'll actually do this in Osman. It's closer to home and I'll be able to move ordinance faster to be ready for this 4 hour suckfest. LOL.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#1679 - 2014-01-30 21:13:00 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
This weekend I am going to go to Lannxsi as Jenn aSide has suggested and run L4 missions for 4 hours. If Jenn aSide would be kind enough to give me suggestions about which missions to decline and which ones to actually blitz so that I can maximize this amount I would be grateful. It will make for a more accurate comparison I think. I believe the current claim is that one can make 150-180m per hour.

Keep in mind that declining multiple missions at a time lowers standing, potentially (eventually?) locking you out from using these agents and thus, voiding the claim of 'sustainability'.


My standing with SOE is 10.00. Not overly concerned about it but I guess I'll defer to Jenn on how often I can decline. Can I go by the 4 hour clock or another clock?


The standings hit for repeatedly declining missions is trivial. You'll make it up with the story lines you do so much more frequently now that you're blitzing missions. In each group of 16 missions you'll be able to decline 3-8 depending on whether you get mats for war or something actually worth running (standings-wise).


If you're at 9.0 standings or something, you will not make it up with storylines. It will trend down because of the way standings work. If all you care about is staying over 5.0, then its fine, but if you want to maintain 9.0 standings or higher, you had better not decline very much at all.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1680 - 2014-01-30 21:15:40 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
This weekend I am going to go to Lannxsi as Jenn aSide has suggested and run L4 missions for 4 hours. If Jenn aSide would be kind enough to give me suggestions about which missions to decline and which ones to actually blitz so that I can maximize this amount I would be grateful. It will make for a more accurate comparison I think. I believe the current claim is that one can make 150-180m per hour.

Keep in mind that declining multiple missions at a time lowers standing, potentially (eventually?) locking you out from using these agents and thus, voiding the claim of 'sustainability'.


My standing with SOE is 10.00. Not overly concerned about it but I guess I'll defer to Jenn on how often I can decline. Can I go by the 4 hour clock or another clock?


The standings hit for repeatedly declining missions is trivial. You'll make it up with the story lines you do so much more frequently now that you're blitzing missions. In each group of 16 missions you'll be able to decline 3-8 depending on whether you get mats for war or something actually worth running (standings-wise).


If you're at 9.0 standings or something, you will not make it up with storylines. It will trend down because of the way standings work. If all you care about is staying over 5.0, then its fine, but if you want to maintain 9.0 standings or higher, you had better not decline very much at all.


Sisters of Eve (Corp) - 10.00
Servant Sisters of Eve (Faction) - 8.82

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!