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SOE Nestor Battleship discussion

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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#21 - 2014-01-29 02:46:11 UTC
With strat-links, a nano, quafe and zors hypervelocity, the nestor is making around 1.8km/s mwd'ing. If you factor in two of those with Berserkers out, webbing at 18km - that does seem to have potential. WIll see.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#22 - 2014-01-29 03:50:41 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on.


Why move on? It's disappointing due to how good the SOE cruiser is. Maybe more discussion could come up with ideas on how to make the ship "Not bad"


That was also done to death in the Nestor topic in F&I.

The main problem with the nestor isn't that is underwhelming and to expensive. It is that there seams to be no real concept behind the ship, or at least I can't see it.

A pirate faction RR BS? Sure why not, could be handy for Incs, WH or some Low Sec stuff. But then again you have to think about what you put on the hull to make it attractive in that niche. Like a 100% weapon bonus to actually use the gun bonus plus having 3-4 utility high slots for RR, like a powerful capacitor to run RR and guns more or less on cap recharge instead of cap boosters, high scan res to lock targets quick, low sig to improve survivability under RR and 10 or more target slots to have enough to lock RR targets and stuff to shoot at the same time.

A pirate faction exploration BS? Sure why not, give it a bit more dps, remove the RR stuff and make it warp faster, give it bonuses to normal cloaks to reduce the penalty's and add speed to burn back to the gate or gtfo in pvp situation. Also a higher travel speed than 2 AU/s wouldn't hurt.

This are just 2 things that I could think of where to go with the hull. It simply lacks the basic design philosophy of deciding what to do with the hull and then deciding what stats/bonuses to put on the hull that it would be attractive for that.

Lloyd Roses wrote:
With strat-links, a nano, quafe and zors hypervelocity, the nestor is making around 1.8km/s mwd'ing. If you factor in two of those with Berserkers out, webbing at 18km - that does seem to have potential. WIll see.


A mach costs halve as much, is faster, does more dps and got the way smaller sig. Also the reason why any nano buffer setup uses shields is because it doesn't slow you down, 15km RR range are not that much during kitting and the problem with heavy drones on a nano BS is that you will lose them all the time when you need to gtfo because they are slow.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-01-29 03:53:10 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on.

Why move on? It's disappointing due to how good the SOE cruiser is. Maybe more discussion could come up with ideas on how to make the ship "Not bad"

I have no issue with there existing 'fun' blingy ships that arent really very good but carebears will buy anyway cos theyre 'cool'.

the issue with the nestor is that it's being sold as an exploration battleship which is a class that doesnt exist. the crux of the issue is that the ship can't be good without a covops cloak but it can't be allowed to have one because it would be OP as all get up.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Mario Putzo
#24 - 2014-01-29 04:39:15 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on.

Why move on? It's disappointing due to how good the SOE cruiser is. Maybe more discussion could come up with ideas on how to make the ship "Not bad"

I have no issue with there existing 'fun' blingy ships that arent really very good but carebears will buy anyway cos theyre 'cool'.

the issue with the nestor is that it's being sold as an exploration battleship which is a class that doesnt exist. the crux of the issue is that the ship can't be good without a covops cloak but it can't be allowed to have one because it would be OP as all get up.


What would really make it any more OP than an Arazu dropping a proper cyno and bringing in super carriers?

Differen't game for a different generation. Personally I think a Black Ops BS fleet capable going into a fleet fight and not just a gank would be cool as **** to see. The only thing it is missing is reliable logistic support. I think the Nestor should have been a Logistics BS from day one for WH and BLOPS Support. This would be how I did it.


Amarr Bonus
Armor Resist +4%

Gallente Bonus
Armor Maitenance Bot +20%

Role Bonus
100% To Remote Armor Rep and Cap Transfer Range
50% Bonus to Remote Armor Rep and Cap Transrer Amount
Remote Sensor booster Bonus+50%
Can Fit Covops Cloak.+Cov Ops Cyno
+10 Virus Strength

Reduce Drone Bay to 250m3
Add Fuel Bay.

* Can not black ops bridge, but can jump to black ops cynos.

-1 Mid + 1 high.

I would buy that Pirate
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#25 - 2014-01-29 10:46:19 UTC
It's a magic ice cream truck CCP made for keeping pirates and gankerbears happy on hot days.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Bibosikus
Air
#26 - 2014-01-29 22:46:40 UTC
At this time of writing, about 100 Nestors have been sold in Jita at an average of 1.7b

The buyers are collectors, epeeners and "who-gives-a-f*ckers"

Nobody in their right mind is buying this ship to fly it proactively and soberly.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Artenso Vestindal
Institute of Tax Optimalization
#27 - 2014-01-30 14:06:40 UTC
Bibosikus wrote:
At this time of writing, about 100 Nestors have been sold in Jita at an average of 1.7b

The buyers are collectors, epeeners and "who-gives-a-f*ckers"

Nobody in their right mind is buying this ship to fly it proactively and soberly.



at current cost of Nestor BPC and other thinks in LP store, it is extremely inefficient to sell nestor under 2B... Should it match ISK/LP ratio of Stratios after release, Nestor would have to be sold at least for 2,5-3B... FAIL


Anyway... nestor is ship
1. with no clear role exept of being drone platform (worse than domi coz of tracking and range bonus on it).
2.At the same time, they nerfed omnitracking for drones (currently with 5 omnies you would have worse bonus than with 2 before it)

what can you do with overpriced droneboat released in time droneboats are nerfed so hard? Hangar spinning... Or hope its price will be decent in first week (well... it isnt)


sincerely
disappointed trader (currently with another collector only ship)
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-01-30 14:50:11 UTC
1. change the laser optimal bonus for a damage bonus, 50% is okay but reduce its turret hardpoints to 4

2. increase capacitor

3. change the logistic bonuses fron only armor to being armor, shield and cap transfer

4. add covert cloak bonuses like those of the stratios and the astero (if the thing will be so expensive at least allow it to travel cloaked so you dont risk those 2 billions)

i dont know....the ship is drone+laser but the laser bonuses need to be improved to be actually used, the logistic bonuses only focus in armor, this kills the interest for those that use shield ships, as many people say, you cannot do exploration in dangerous space without a covert cloak, this needs to be added.......
Mario Putzo
#29 - 2014-01-30 16:49:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Silivar Karkun wrote:
1. change the laser optimal bonus for a damage bonus, 50% is okay but reduce its turret hardpoints to 4

2. increase capacitor

3. change the logistic bonuses fron only armor to being armor, shield and cap transfer

4. add covert cloak bonuses like those of the stratios and the astero (if the thing will be so expensive at least allow it to travel cloaked so you dont risk those 2 billions)

i dont know....the ship is drone+laser but the laser bonuses need to be improved to be actually used, the logistic bonuses only focus in armor, this kills the interest for those that use shield ships, as many people say, you cannot do exploration in dangerous space without a covert cloak, this needs to be added.......



These changes don't improve on the problem that the Nestor faces...

Its bonuses are all over the map, and it has no dedicated role or use.

If I want laser DPS, ill get some folks into Navy Geddons at less cost.
If I want Drone DPS ill get some folks into Domis at less cost (hell you can pimp fit them and still come out cheaper)
If I want repairs ill bring a dedicated Logistic Cruiser.
If I want to do Relic/Data sites ill use a Cov Ops or one of the 2 other SOE ships
If I am doing Complexes/WH sites ill bring a T3.

CCP had a chance to improve Black Ops Battleship fleets beyond just ganking targets, and the opportunity to provide a ship capable of supporting long term exploration in WH's. (with Ship Maint. Bay.) They axed the ability to Cov Ops and joing Blops gangs, and they killed the maint. bay.

If I go to a WH I still need a POS or a Mobile Depot.
If I blops I still have no logi (aside from gimmick T3's) and resort to ganking Carriers in belts.

It needs to be reconfigured to preform a dedicated role without stepping on the toes of current role players.

In this situation the only one that jumps out at me is as a Logistics Battleship capable of jumping to Black Ops Cyno and Fitting Covert Ops Cloak. You can also look at the current ships in game and notice that there is no ship that fills this role aside from gimmick T3's, and if you need reps in a wormhole bring a cruiser.

I would say the problem with the bonuses is...it has to many across to many areas.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#30 - 2014-01-30 17:40:50 UTC
if the ship was underwhelming before the omni nerf... now... bleh.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-01-30 19:13:11 UTC
The great thing is, the phantasm no longer has to be alone.
unreasonable reason
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-01-30 19:56:17 UTC
before even thinking of buying one I put it through eft, result is with 1 large t2 armor rep, no mwd, ab or mjd, empty 2 utility highs that's intended for rr, all the rest of fittings takes 1 pg per module, maxed skills, it's nearly 500 pg short of able to fit 5 mega pules laser II.
with 2 large remote armor reps, mwd, 1 large armor rep and 5x tachyon IIs, it is over 7k pg short.
the only large lasers it can comfortably fit 5 of is dual heavy beams, and dual heavy pulse.

beside the massive pg shortage for a pirate faction ship, the cap is less than a domi, with rr, mwd (important to take advantage of low mass and no sentry range bonus) and using lasers, it's very very poor on cap unless you use alot of cap boosters instead of cap rechargers. i guess the bigger cargo bay is for carrying around cap booster charges, not really in line with the "long deployment self efficient exploration ship" brand they got in the description.
Mario Putzo
#33 - 2014-01-30 21:55:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Just spent like an hour trying out various ways to fit this ship...

Needs more Capacitor if it is going to be an RR ship even in a chain with another Nestor you would still need 2 boosters in the mids. So even changing its bonuses to promote RR use is kind of futile.


Back to the drawing board.
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#34 - 2014-01-30 23:28:16 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on.


Why move on? It's disappointing due to how good the SOE cruiser is. Maybe more discussion could come up with ideas on how to make the ship "Not bad"


This was done extensively in the F&I and CCP Rise simply ignored all the feedback, much like CCP SoniClover did with the ESS and CCP Fozzie did with omni tracking. Seems like a pattern is developing here...
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-01-31 00:06:15 UTC
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:
This was done extensively in the F&I and CCP Rise simply ignored all the feedback, much like CCP SoniClover did with the ESS and CCP Fozzie did with omni tracking. Seems like a pattern is developing here...

hardly developing. has been fully developed for so long it's nearing retirement age.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Boudacca Sangrere
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-01-31 11:07:48 UTC
EvE is about choices. About having your cake OR eating it. In my opinion the crux with the Nestor is that it is neither good at getting the cake, nor at eating it (I hope you excuse my food based analogy, but I am hungry).

Fear not, there are solutions. I do think a Cov Ops cloak would be quite nice actually and very, very useful. Alas, it would seem to be a bit overpowered. So how about "greying" out all high slots (and locking the drone bay) while having one fitted? Especially, with some of the nice new modules (mobile depot, D-scan inhibitor, etc.) it would give pilots an incentive to use these (and use up cargo), which leads to making choices...

An additional low (at the cost of an mid slot) would be also very helpful (the Nestor IS an Armor ship after all), in order to give the Nestor a place and proper role.

Just fly,

B.
Mario Putzo
#37 - 2014-01-31 18:15:42 UTC
Boudacca Sangrere wrote:
EvE is about choices. About having your cake OR eating it. In my opinion the crux with the Nestor is that it is neither good at getting the cake, nor at eating it (I hope you excuse my food based analogy, but I am hungry).

Fear not, there are solutions. I do think a Cov Ops cloak would be quite nice actually and very, very useful. Alas, it would seem to be a bit overpowered. So how about "greying" out all high slots (and locking the drone bay) while having one fitted? Especially, with some of the nice new modules (mobile depot, D-scan inhibitor, etc.) it would give pilots an incentive to use these (and use up cargo), which leads to making choices...

An additional low (at the cost of an mid slot) would be also very helpful (the Nestor IS an Armor ship after all), in order to give the Nestor a place and proper role.

Just fly,

B.



That doesn't even make any sense.

if I wanted a cloaky cargo bay id just befirend a Covops Hauler.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2014-01-31 22:24:28 UTC
The Djego wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Ship's bad, topic's been done to death, move on.


Why move on? It's disappointing due to how good the SOE cruiser is. Maybe more discussion could come up with ideas on how to make the ship "Not bad"


That was also done to death in the Nestor topic in F&I.

The main problem with the nestor isn't that is underwhelming and to expensive. It is that there seams to be no real concept behind the ship, or at least I can't see it.

A pirate faction RR BS? Sure why not, could be handy for Incs, WH or some Low Sec stuff. But then again you have to think about what you put on the hull to make it attractive in that niche. Like a 100% weapon bonus to actually use the gun bonus plus having 3-4 utility high slots for RR, like a powerful capacitor to run RR and guns more or less on cap recharge instead of cap boosters, high scan res to lock targets quick, low sig to improve survivability under RR and 10 or more target slots to have enough to lock RR targets and stuff to shoot at the same time.

A pirate faction exploration BS? Sure why not, give it a bit more dps, remove the RR stuff and make it warp faster, give it bonuses to normal cloaks to reduce the penalty's and add speed to burn back to the gate or gtfo in pvp situation. Also a higher travel speed than 2 AU/s wouldn't hurt.

This are just 2 things that I could think of where to go with the hull. It simply lacks the basic design philosophy of deciding what to do with the hull and then deciding what stats/bonuses to put on the hull that it would be attractive for that.

Lloyd Roses wrote:
With strat-links, a nano, quafe and zors hypervelocity, the nestor is making around 1.8km/s mwd'ing. If you factor in two of those with Berserkers out, webbing at 18km - that does seem to have potential. WIll see.


A mach costs halve as much, is faster, does more dps and got the way smaller sig. Also the reason why any nano buffer setup uses shields is because it doesn't slow you down, 15km RR range are not that much during kitting and the problem with heavy drones on a nano BS is that you will lose them all the time when you need to gtfo because they are slow.


The bonus to probing and hacking is hilarious.

Nestor warps to sig. If Nestor is not scrambled by intie while aligning, Intie will be waiting for it at sig when it arrives.

Nestor is at hacking site, intie jumps in warps to site, scrambles Nestor before its even halfway to warp..

Its just not practical to have a billion + isk battleship doing hacking when you have interceptors that can literally lock, warp and run circles around battleships with impunity.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Mario Putzo
#39 - 2014-02-01 00:16:37 UTC
Well to be fair it can use small drones so I don't know about "impunity" but yes this is a silly redundant feature. Its like CCP just ate a bunch of ideas and threw some up on the floor. Then took out all the decent ones and left a pile of pukey crap sitting there.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#40 - 2014-02-01 00:34:49 UTC
This ship is horrendously bad.....

It doesn't do anything it claims in the description well....



Who made the decision on this worthless 1.5b ship?