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The ESS has to go

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Caius Beriat
O'Coin Enterprises
#21 - 2014-01-30 08:47:11 UTC
The question is, will the CSM be able to get them to fix this?

Ugh
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#22 - 2014-01-30 08:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Janeway84
Destruct every single ESS you see! Twisted
If you what you guys are saying here is true about the ESS its like free intel without having to bother with having a scout at the hole.. this is like breaking everything about wh space.. Shocked

I dont want to think CCP hates wormhole space or wormholers, but its probably a use they didnt see anyone trying to use the ESS for Big smile
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#23 - 2014-01-30 08:54:28 UTC
Sorry Keith but theres a difference between active scouting, even on alts, and a passive broadcaster that cant be countered.

~Bringer of happiness

http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/
Moist Weasel
Cult of Mooby
#24 - 2014-01-30 08:54:35 UTC
+1, Either fix it to where it can not be deployed in WH space or remove it. If I wanted to have early warning I would play in LS/NS.
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-01-30 08:59:07 UTC
Forwarding info to CCP. I hope it gets fixed as free intel should not be on the table in wspace.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Kaivaja
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-01-30 09:00:55 UTC
Isn't the broadcast in local supposedly sent by Concord or the factional navy whose unit has been deployed? Neither Concord nor navies should send any broadcasts in w-space local. I think it's fine that the module works in w-space, but the broadcasts should not.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-01-30 09:01:11 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
It is the point...
It's cheaper and more efficient to use a real bubble and listen to the hole on an alt
It's 25mil and cant be recovered so it's not like you can move them from wormhole to wormhole.


It's just a slightly more convenient and expensive but less effective method of watching for Gankers.

If those bears you tried to Gank had a large bubble and a scout on the hole you wouldn't have killed them.


You won't see these on holes any more frequently then you'll see large bubbles.


So what exactly is it breaking?


A toon with a bubble may definitely be cheaper, but a human being doing a thing has room for error. If the person running the toon looks away, gets distracted, bio break, whatever, they can miss things. Something that automatically reports who's there will do so perfectly every time, no error. That's why it's bad.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Dmitry Wizard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#28 - 2014-01-30 09:05:53 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Forwarding info to CCP. I hope it gets fixed as free intel should not be on the table in wspace.



Tank you Chitsa. I have also thrown in a petition just to see what gm ruling is. heres to hoping

"Wormhole corps are like a bunch of homeschooled kids"
Ori Muvila
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-01-30 09:14:21 UTC
Hopefully this gets sorted soon. Wormholes need to be treated similar to gates when it comes to this sort of thing
Jay Joringer
13.
#30 - 2014-01-30 09:42:42 UTC
I’m going to echo Keith a bit here and say I don’t think it’s that big a deal. It probably will get fixed, but in the meantime it doesn’t change things a whole lot. No one is going to do any serious bearing with an active connection. Also, if people a rolling into holes for pew, they won’t find one of these instantaneously appear on the K162.

If people have thought about this properly, it something that can be used to instigate ‘player interaction’. But for those who can’t figure out how, by all means whinge about how it will kill off 80% of your uncreative PvP. And while we’re at it:
“88.2% of statistics are made up on the spot” –Vic Reeves

http://smug-bastard.blogspot.co.uk

13 are recruiting!
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#31 - 2014-01-30 09:43:00 UTC
I have to say I agree with the point that it's not much difference between this thing broadcasting WH activity and a cloaked scout.

I know it FEELs differently, because the intruder loses this "stealthy super bad guy" feeling, but in fact, the ESS is an advantage for you PvPers.

Just think about it.
A) You enter a wormhole and look for targets. Cloaky scout reports you. You will not know.

B) You enter a wormhole and look for targets. ESS screams in local. You KNOW that you have been reported.

For the ratter, it makes no difference. You will be reported in both cases. If he does not pay attention, you will get him anyway. The cheap scout alt on a free slot of a second account might even cost much less than a new ESS plus logistics for every single hole open during ratting.

But for YOU it's definitely different. You know instantly whether your potential target is careful or not. Whether it does make sense to lurk around for hours or not.
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#32 - 2014-01-30 09:56:24 UTC
Some of you are really really creative. I'd have never thought of putting it at the WH. It needs a massive range distance from WH's.
Peter Cephas
The Restless Masquerade
#33 - 2014-01-30 09:57:36 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
Dmitry Wizard wrote:
thats not the point keith. its a 30 km bubble and broadcasts who you are in local.... its broken



It is the point...
It's cheaper and more efficient to use a real bubble and listen to the hole on an alt
It's 25mil and cant be recovered so it's not like you can move them from wormhole to wormhole.


It's just a slightly more convenient and expensive but less effective method of watching for Gankers.

If those bears you tried to Gank had a large bubble and a scout on the hole you wouldn't have killed them.


You won't see these on holes any more frequently then you'll see large bubbles.


So what exactly is it breaking?



Sorry, but how can it be cheaper to have to plex a full account, to have a guard watching over the hole, with the sound on, then buy a cheap module and just planting it there when you run sites?
650+ for a plex
25 mil for one of those

Lets say you are lucky and get 15 days of full 2 hour siting...
thats 25x15 = 375 mil.
Peter Cephas
The Restless Masquerade
#34 - 2014-01-30 10:01:20 UTC
Edward Olmops wrote:
I have to say I agree with the point that it's not much difference between this thing broadcasting WH activity and a cloaked scout.

I know it FEELs differently, because the intruder loses this "stealthy super bad guy" feeling, but in fact, the ESS is an advantage for you PvPers.

Just think about it.
A) You enter a wormhole and look for targets. Cloaky scout reports you. You will not know.

B) You enter a wormhole and look for targets. ESS screams in local. You KNOW that you have been reported.

For the ratter, it makes no difference. You will be reported in both cases. If he does not pay attention, you will get him anyway. The cheap scout alt on a free slot of a second account might even cost much less than a new ESS plus logistics for every single hole open during ratting.

But for YOU it's definitely different. You know instantly whether your potential target is careful or not. Whether it does make sense to lurk around for hours or not.



It's not the same, a cloaked alt leaves room for error for a scout looking for a siting crew to find them and know where they are before they all bowl into you and pop you.
Here you get an instant warning when someone has entered your system, even before he has time to get any intel on where you are/what you are doing/friend to fleet up with him to come gank you.

A cloaked scout only needs a toilet-break to miss incomming. A beacon broadcasting to EVERYONE is a whole different matter
Jay Joringer
13.
#35 - 2014-01-30 10:01:31 UTC
Peter Cephas wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
Dmitry Wizard wrote:
thats not the point keith. its a 30 km bubble and broadcasts who you are in local.... its broken



It is the point...
It's cheaper and more efficient to use a real bubble and listen to the hole on an alt
It's 25mil and cant be recovered so it's not like you can move them from wormhole to wormhole.


It's just a slightly more convenient and expensive but less effective method of watching for Gankers.

If those bears you tried to Gank had a large bubble and a scout on the hole you wouldn't have killed them.


You won't see these on holes any more frequently then you'll see large bubbles.


So what exactly is it breaking?



Sorry, but how can it be cheaper to have to plex a full account, to have a guard watching over the hole, with the sound on, then buy a cheap module and just planting it there when you run sites?
650+ for a plex
25 mil for one of those

Lets say you are lucky and get 15 days of full 2 hour siting...
thats 25x15 = 375 mil.



Confirming that no one leaves a cloaky alt watching a WH on their second screen because of the hideously high expense of doing so.

No one.

http://smug-bastard.blogspot.co.uk

13 are recruiting!
Enthropic
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#36 - 2014-01-30 10:04:27 UTC
I dont think there is a point discussing which is better or more efficient, leaving an alt as scout on a WH entrance or anchoring an ESS for automated intel.
IMO, there cant be any question that this is ******** and counter-productive to have in WH space.
I do find it amusing that apparently nobody at CCP did even think of this when they deployed this structure in the latest patch.

In WHs there is delayed local, there are no bounties and therefore there is absolutely no place for this deployable in WH space.
NinjaStyle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-01-30 10:31:58 UTC
as a null sec resident: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ESS USAGE FOUND!
Peter Cephas
The Restless Masquerade
#38 - 2014-01-30 10:38:01 UTC
Jay Joringer wrote:
Peter Cephas wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
Dmitry Wizard wrote:
thats not the point keith. its a 30 km bubble and broadcasts who you are in local.... its broken



It is the point...
It's cheaper and more efficient to use a real bubble and listen to the hole on an alt
It's 25mil and cant be recovered so it's not like you can move them from wormhole to wormhole.


It's just a slightly more convenient and expensive but less effective method of watching for Gankers.

If those bears you tried to Gank had a large bubble and a scout on the hole you wouldn't have killed them.


You won't see these on holes any more frequently then you'll see large bubbles.


So what exactly is it breaking?



Sorry, but how can it be cheaper to have to plex a full account, to have a guard watching over the hole, with the sound on, then buy a cheap module and just planting it there when you run sites?
650+ for a plex
25 mil for one of those

Lets say you are lucky and get 15 days of full 2 hour siting...
thats 25x15 = 375 mil.



Confirming that no one leaves a cloaky alt watching a WH on their second screen because of the hideously high expense of doing so.

No one.


Of course people DO it, but saying that it's cheaper is not true.
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
#39 - 2014-01-30 10:43:01 UTC
We certainly agree on some points:
1. The ESS was definitely not designed to be used in WHs.
2. Someone actually found out that despite not being designed for this, one can actually make use of an ESS in WHs.

So, in the first place this is great! Someone used the sandbox and his creativity to do something unexpected.

Now the question is:
Is this breaking the game in terms of giving a huge and unfair advantage over other other existing methods of achieving the same.
So IT IS a point discussing which is better or more efficient, leaving an alt as scout on a WH entrance or anchoring an ESS for automated intel.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#40 - 2014-01-30 10:52:59 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
Forwarding info to CCP. I hope it gets fixed as free intel should not be on the table in wspace.

Except it's not free, really.

You still have to pay for an ESS, safely anchor it, and risk giving away a free killmail. You've also just bubbled your exits - which can be as dangerous to you as to anyone else jumping in.

Just playing devil's advocate. Blink

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