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New dev blog: Introducing Cerberus

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Author
CCP Shiny
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2011-11-25 16:57:26 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
Could we have someone from CCP maybe tell us why the client needs to be localized at all? I'm sure there is a bunch of numbers somewhere explaining just how many subscriptions you expect to miss out on but from my perspective I don't really get it.


Well, I would describe it as both, a business decision and a service to the playerbase/potential players. In some countries there are more English speakers than in others, but even for those people that do speak English, the topics that EVE deals with can be quite complex. Consider their technical or (pseudo)scientific nature, but also the areas where you dive deeper into the backstory.

For many players it might actually be possible to play with the English client even with limited language skills and indeed I would imagine that many in the regions where we don't have localized clients do exactly that. However, it may be less enjoyable because things may be misunderstood and details missed. Localizing the client makes it easier for people to get into the game and enjoy it.

The fact that localization potentially makes international communication harder is very much on our radar and we are trying to find solutions, but I also think that there are plenty of players who stick to corporations of their own language and only have limited interaction with people from other countries.

We also know that a certain group of players will use the localized client and another group may not for various reasons, and that is fine. We don't want to force it on anyone, but if people want to use it then it is there Smile

CCP Shiny \ Producer NES Localization Services \ @ccp_shiny

CCP Shiny
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2011-11-25 17:02:59 UTC
Alastar Frost wrote:


The localized clients are great for players who stick with people of their own language, but they are near useless for players in international corps and alliances or people who interact with players from everywhere.



Hi, that is true - but I don't think of the group of players who speak English well enough to make a meaningful contribution to an international corporation as the main target group of our localized client. However, we do want to cater to them, too as far as possible and we are trying to find a solution to that situation. Smile

CCP Shiny \ Producer NES Localization Services \ @ccp_shiny

roigon
TURN LEFT
#43 - 2011-11-25 17:10:11 UTC
Someone already mentioned this, but I was wondering what CCP's views on this are.

As far as I know when an non-english client launches probes or the likes, he will launch probes with a name in their own language. This actually gives additional intel.

If I see probes in my WH that are in english, they could be my corp mates. But if I see for instance german probes, I know we have a bogey.

Now obviously this works two ways, an all german corp who for whatever reason prefer the german client will easily discern that english probes are not theirs.

Now this is far from being an issue, wouldn't even call it a issue. But I find it weird that reality differences create in-game differences on that level.

Also, I noticed in some other thread were you where looking for dutch native speakers among others. For the love of god, stop wasting your time on that right now. That 1 dutch person that doesn't know english will just have to harden the **** up. There are dead languages that have more native speakers and I've yet to meet a monolingual dutch person. Heck, a common complaint among expats is that it's impossible to learn dutch because everyone will just switch to english as soon as they notice the speaker isn't a native speaker.

On a side note, thank you for already stating that you will make it an optional choice to use the localization.
CCP Shiny
C C P
C C P Alliance
#44 - 2011-11-25 17:14:53 UTC
Knug LiDi wrote:


Combine this with EVE voice - so I can swear in English and have it properly translated to be heard in Swedish and Dutch.



I had visions of Aura smacking me on VO if I lose a ship. We should have her use Bavarian swearing, too Twisted

CCP Shiny \ Producer NES Localization Services \ @ccp_shiny

Krans Hopeson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2011-11-25 17:15:39 UTC
I've been involved in localisation of several software projects, using C, Python and Scheme.

Why is CCP re-inventing the wheel with this? gettext has supported translating messages with differing number conventions forever and a day. Roll
CCP Shiny
C C P
C C P Alliance
#46 - 2011-11-25 17:20:53 UTC
roigon wrote:
Someone already mentioned this, but I was wondering what CCP's views on this are.

As far as I know when an non-english client launches probes or the likes, he will launch probes with a name in their own language. This actually gives additional intel.

If I see probes in my WH that are in english, they could be my corp mates. But if I see for instance german probes, I know we have a bogey.

Now obviously this works two ways, an all german corp who for whatever reason prefer the german client will easily discern that english probes are not theirs.

Now this is far from being an issue, wouldn't even call it a issue. But I find it weird that reality differences create in-game differences on that level.



We are aware of that one and (as far as I am aware) consider it a defect, but not one that is trivial to fix.

CCP Shiny \ Producer NES Localization Services \ @ccp_shiny

Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2011-11-25 17:26:43 UTC
I look forward to being able to communicate with the Korean Neighbors in English
I hope the Serbus does become an option for real time talking in Local and in Alliance speak.

Oh can there be an option for swearing converter like when a guy says "**** you" - it will respond with " I wish to have an Adult interaction with you" Some foreign language translation should be a laugh Riot. As Different Cultures curse in different ways.

I was following the WOD - Serbus was mentioned as a feature for WOD that was being given to EVE, as apart of the Carbon exchange between Projects. Am I wrong on this?

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

AnkaD
Simply Terribad
#48 - 2011-11-25 17:42:06 UTC
The Doomsday reanslation would actually mean:

Machine of Judgement Day

translated back into english. Bergbaubarkassen for Mining Barges otoh is pretty good in my opinion.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#49 - 2011-11-25 17:52:30 UTC
Hey developers while you are at making the client look up terms and terminology.

Have you considered an auto translate feature for players to be able to use?

Final Fantasy 11 had such system which allowed for construction of some horribly but understoodable sentences.

The process had a player starts typing out a term/word or browing for one in a catagorized libary of words and then he presses tab in which a number of words would be selectable for the player.

Once he made his decision the word would be brackected (though bolding would work here) which indicated that no matter what language of the client is on the other end its going to be convereted to the client's own language.

So if an english player a autotranslates {Surrender} in his client it will still read as such when he transmits to a channel he can read on but when it arrives on a german client it will read as {Kapitulation} or on a russian client as {капитуляция}.

(Please dont shoot me all translations provided by google.)

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#50 - 2011-11-25 18:18:51 UTC
What does this mean in terms of future UI improvements as a whole. Will this constrain a possible overhaul of the UI (which it sorely needs) or will this benefit it? Please explain why or why not.

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?

Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#51 - 2011-11-25 18:19:42 UTC
thoth rothschild wrote:
For the people wondering about the doomsday


"Maschine des Tages des jüngsten Gerichtes"


Oh god, that is horrible! O_o

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka

Leovarian Lavitz
Ninjuggernauts
Fly Fearless
#52 - 2011-11-25 18:20:27 UTC
Related to game localization is player communication. I feel that perhaps partnering with a major translator such as Google translate you could enable real-time translation as an option for the clients without additional server load (The client could right-click auto-translate). Just an idea.
CCP Ronin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#53 - 2011-11-25 18:24:45 UTC
Gevlin wrote:
I look forward to being able to communicate with the Korean Neighbors in English
I hope the Serbus does become an option for real time talking in Local and in Alliance speak.

Oh can there be an option for swearing converter like when a guy says "**** you" - it will respond with " I wish to have an Adult interaction with you" Some foreign language translation should be a laugh Riot. As Different Cultures curse in different ways.

I was following the WOD - Serbus was mentioned as a feature for WOD that was being given to EVE, as apart of the Carbon exchange between Projects. Am I wrong on this?



Correct. Team Cerberus is a team of WoD developers that developed Cerberus as shared Carbon technology.

CCP Ronin Senior Programmer -- Internationalization

CCP Ronin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#54 - 2011-11-25 18:28:28 UTC
Zendoren wrote:
What does this mean in terms of future UI improvements as a whole. Will this constrain a possible overhaul of the UI (which it sorely needs) or will this benefit it? Please explain why or why not.


We actually have a pseudo-localization tool with Cerberus, which will keep strings in a mostly-readable English form, but using accented, Cyrillic or Chinese/Japanese characters to emulate the localized experience. This tool is now used by UI devs and QA to test the localized experience during the development process. We're hopeful that this will help bring issues to light sooner than waiting for turn-around on translations and then waiting for a bug to be reported by a native Russian or German speaker.

CCP Ronin Senior Programmer -- Internationalization

CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2011-11-25 18:32:21 UTC
Mekhana wrote:
Looking forward to a Brazilian Portuguese client?


I know a little Brazilian Ju Jitsu and I went to Portugal with my graduation class. I feel like we're connected :D

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

Schnoo
The Schnoo
#56 - 2011-11-25 18:34:01 UTC
Leovarian Lavitz wrote:
Related to game localization is player communication. I feel that perhaps partnering with a major translator such as Google translate you could enable real-time translation as an option for the clients without additional server load (The client could right-click auto-translate). Just an idea.

Yeah, it's perfect, isn't it: http://translationparty.com/#9978612.
Jokes aside, languages with drastically different grammar like English and Japanese are hard to translate. It works fine in cases like English/Serbian or even English/Deutsch which differ slightly.
David Magnus
#57 - 2011-11-25 19:33:33 UTC
That's great!
I'm glad that EVE will be available to more people in more places!

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/fight-us-maybe

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/winterupdate

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/supercaps

http://soundcloud.com/davidkmagnus/pandemiclegion

Matalok
Slackers and Nihilists
#58 - 2011-11-25 19:38:03 UTC
As someone who has done some i18n and i10n on a few apps, I tip my hat to the devs. This is no easy job and it generally gets overlooked by people.
nardaq
Orion Expeditions
#59 - 2011-11-25 19:58:51 UTC  |  Edited by: nardaq
CCP Shiny wrote:
roigon wrote:
Someone already mentioned this, but I was wondering what CCP's views on this are.

As far as I know when an non-english client launches probes or the likes, he will launch probes with a name in their own language. This actually gives additional intel.

If I see probes in my WH that are in english, they could be my corp mates. But if I see for instance german probes, I know we have a bogey.

Now obviously this works two ways, an all german corp who for whatever reason prefer the german client will easily discern that english probes are not theirs.

Now this is far from being an issue, wouldn't even call it a issue. But I find it weird that reality differences create in-game differences on that level.



We are aware of that one and (as far as I am aware) consider it a defect, but not one that is trivial to fix.

can you keep the translation locally?
For example if some one is linking a "Jita solar system" on a English client, the other client will get the translation on whatever language they set it on, like german "Jita Sonnensystem" , russian "Jita вездная система", dutch "Jita zonnestelsel" ect.... same thing for objects in space
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#60 - 2011-11-25 20:18:56 UTC
Krans Hopeson wrote:
I've been involved in localisation of several software projects, using C, Python and Scheme.

Why is CCP re-inventing the wheel with this? gettext has supported translating messages with differing number conventions forever and a day. Roll


Because a lot of what we say in English contains metaphor and idiom. For insance, I can say 'hit the road' in English, and someone that speaks English to a reasonable degree will probably know what I'm saying. On the other hand, if I were to say 'Hit the road' in French or Japanese, someone that's not familiar with English idiom would hear me saying that I'm going to physically assault a roadway.

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