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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1581 - 2014-01-30 02:36:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Sigs will support at most 100 people per region and they would be stepping on each others toes.

So, lets work out a way to increase the supported number of people that won't allow the current number of people to quadruple their income just by cherry picking and keep everyone else out still.
Multiple objective sigs might be a great start, where once you complete one objective the other objectives will despawn soon so you benefit from several people in the same sig?
Also giving more resistance to small roaming gangs since you are no longer solo also.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#1582 - 2014-01-30 02:38:33 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
My prediction: Suddenly EVE becomes much more fun, and a better game in general.


There is no need for prediction. Hisec came into existence because not having it was killing the game: both in terms of the endless kerb-stomping "killing" the enjoyment of the game, and the number of pilots unsubscribing because they were being endlessly kerb-stomped.

So my prediction of what would happen if hi sec was "finally" nerfed, is that the population of the game would drop by about 90%* and those remaining would have no fun once they ran out of ships because none of the people routinely stocking Jita are left.

Now take a look at how quickly new features are developed. Go through the last four expansions and remove 90% of the stuff done in those expansions. New ships? Gone. Ship rebalancing? Gone. V3 remodelling? About half of what we have now. Bug fixes? Most of those if you're lucky. Response time for support tickets? Lengthened by an order of magnitude. With 90% fewer staff, you don't get 10% of the work done, you get closer to 3%, 5% if some of those left are absolute heroes, all operating at CCP karkur levels of efficiency. Fixes and adjustments that used to get swept up in "somebody's" spare time end up getting swept up in "nobody's" spare time. No longer can you involve two other developers in a discussion about a key point, because there aren't two other developers. With fewer discussions possible, bad ideas or poor designs don't get weeded out as quickly, better ideas don't come to fruition, and due to the lack of spirited competition in groups of people doing the same type of work, the work that does get done will be of lower quality.

That is what would happen if hi sec was "finally" nerfed.

*90% being the 50% of the players who only live in hi sec, along with 40% representing all the hi sec income-earning alts of low- and null-sec players who no longer have a need for a auto piloting freighter carrying junk to/from Jita to make an extra billion ISK a week.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1583 - 2014-01-30 02:39:16 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Hardly the games fault you don't fight for your regions, but instead share and rent them out. EvE is a game about taking, not sharing. You're looking for Hello Kitty Online.


There are not enough sigs for the null sec population. We could literally take all of sov space, force everyone else out and we would still not have enough sigs to support the CFC numbers.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1584 - 2014-01-30 02:40:33 UTC
look seriously if sigs even needed balancing (they're supposed to be rare and the only thing nullsec sigs need is introduction of newbie sigs like ccp added to lowsec) the balancing wouldn't even need to nerf anything in highsec so sigs are not under discussion
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1585 - 2014-01-30 02:41:32 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Sigs will support at most 100 people per region and they would be stepping on each others toes.

So, lets work out a way to increase the supported number of people that won't allow the current number of people to quadruple their income just by cherry picking and keep everyone else out still.
Multiple objective sigs might be a great start, where once you complete one objective the other objectives will despawn soon so you benefit from several people in the same sig?
Also giving more resistance to small roaming gangs since you are no longer solo also.



Or we can just nerf mission blitzing which would most likely make anoms worth running.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1586 - 2014-01-30 02:45:21 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
fishblades wrote:
Otuk Andven wrote:
Actually I've just hit a stroke of luck

Killed a rare 9m rat and got 50m worth of loot

So perhaps ratting from belts isn't going to be so hard, going for the anomalies might had been too quick


Sheesh you have a long way to go. What kind of T3 do you have?


The best way I've found for myself to make money in 0.0 is to run combat signatures. If I am able to find enough sites to run in goonspace then you should be able to. When I resubbed I had 400mil which i turned into 22bil in like 2 months just running about 7-10 sites a week. For example a pith penal complex takes about 20-30 minutes to run, or less if you dual box it, and even if the overseer just drops effects thats still 80mil for 30 minutes worth of time. Run 7 of those in a week and you made half a bil. Some days you can scan for a couple hours and not find anything but on those days I just log and try again tomorrow. Even with just effects you are making decent money but huge payoffs are always possible depending on the plex. Pith Penals can drop upwards of 500-600mil and the best plex in Deklein, the guristas troop staging point drops the medium shield booster thats worth like 700mil by itself. So figure 7-10 plex in a week with the low end of maybe 2 paying off big and the isk builds up really fast. I do have one advantage being in Goonswarm. Our Eve Wiki lists all the plex so you can read about what you are warping into before you commit a ship to something. I'm sure you can find public resources though, they just wont be as good. I'm still working up the nerve to try and run The Maze in dual tengus, but that site scares me, it has the possibility of dropping over a bil though.

In the 4 months since I returned I bought 2 faction fit tengus worth around 1.6 bil each, a Revelation, 10 timecards, I gave away around 4bil isk for Christmas and I still have 10bil in my wallet.

Also I don't recommend buying your stuff in 0.0. Buy all your stuff in jita and hopefully someone in your corp runs a freighter service or find someone with a carrier who can jump your stuff back. Train into a carrier if you haven't, it will make your life so much easier.




Source



And what is this supposed to mean?

The poster said he made 22 bil in null sec in 2 months. That's great. You know where else you can make 22 bil in 2 months?

High Sec. Without having to watch local. Protected by CONCORD. 22 bil in 2 months in 366 mil a day, thats nothing in incursions, sisters mission, thukker missions , cosmos farming, and smart blitzing.

That same 366 mil a day is less than ONE HOUR of faction arfare lvl 4 farming. You'd know that if you had a single clue about the issue you keep choosing to talk about without any knowledge.

Under and rational and healthy risk reward scheme, SOV null would be the 2nd fastest place to make that 22 bil in 2 months (after high end wormholes). It's not.

And that's the probelm you people are in so much denial about despite the fact that it's easily verifiable with even just a small amount of personal effort.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1587 - 2014-01-30 02:58:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
fishblades wrote:
Otuk Andven wrote:
Actually I've just hit a stroke of luck

Killed a rare 9m rat and got 50m worth of loot

So perhaps ratting from belts isn't going to be so hard, going for the anomalies might had been too quick


Sheesh you have a long way to go. What kind of T3 do you have?


The best way I've found for myself to make money in 0.0 is to run combat signatures. If I am able to find enough sites to run in goonspace then you should be able to. When I resubbed I had 400mil which i turned into 22bil in like 2 months just running about 7-10 sites a week. For example a pith penal complex takes about 20-30 minutes to run, or less if you dual box it, and even if the overseer just drops effects thats still 80mil for 30 minutes worth of time. Run 7 of those in a week and you made half a bil. Some days you can scan for a couple hours and not find anything but on those days I just log and try again tomorrow. Even with just effects you are making decent money but huge payoffs are always possible depending on the plex. Pith Penals can drop upwards of 500-600mil and the best plex in Deklein, the guristas troop staging point drops the medium shield booster thats worth like 700mil by itself. So figure 7-10 plex in a week with the low end of maybe 2 paying off big and the isk builds up really fast. I do have one advantage being in Goonswarm. Our Eve Wiki lists all the plex so you can read about what you are warping into before you commit a ship to something. I'm sure you can find public resources though, they just wont be as good. I'm still working up the nerve to try and run The Maze in dual tengus, but that site scares me, it has the possibility of dropping over a bil though.

In the 4 months since I returned I bought 2 faction fit tengus worth around 1.6 bil each, a Revelation, 10 timecards, I gave away around 4bil isk for Christmas and I still have 10bil in my wallet.

Also I don't recommend buying your stuff in 0.0. Buy all your stuff in jita and hopefully someone in your corp runs a freighter service or find someone with a carrier who can jump your stuff back. Train into a carrier if you haven't, it will make your life so much easier.




Source



And what is this supposed to mean?

The poster said he made 22 bil in null sec in 2 months. That's great. You know where else you can make 22 bil in 2 months?

High Sec. Without having to watch local. Protected by CONCORD. 22 bil in 2 months in 366 mil a day, thats nothing in incursions, sisters mission, thukker missions , cosmos farming, and smart blitzing.

That same 366 mil a day is less than ONE HOUR of faction arfare lvl 4 farming. You'd know that if you had a single clue about the issue you keep choosing to talk about without any knowledge.

Under and rational and healthy risk reward scheme, SOV null would be the 2nd fastest place to make that 22 bil in 2 months (after high end wormholes). It's not.

And that's the probelm you people are in so much denial about despite the fact that it's easily verifiable with even just a small amount of personal effort.

You cannot make 22 billion in high sec in two months reliably. You maybe could scamming or something but even incursions will not give you that much unless you're poopsocking.


In null you can make that reliably playing a few hours a day. If you're clearing null belts as well you could make up to 10's of billions or more just on the one rare officer.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1588 - 2014-01-30 03:12:15 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You cannot make 22 billion in high sec in two months reliably. You maybe could scamming or something but even incursions will not give you that much unless you're poopsocking.


In null you can make that reliably playing a few hours a day. If you're clearing null belts as well you could make up to 10's of billions or more just on the one rare officer.


I have had 2 officer spawns in 8 years.

Belt ratting is one of the worst activities you can do for making isk.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1589 - 2014-01-30 03:16:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


I have had 2 officer spawns in 8 years.

Belt ratting is one of the worst activities you can do for making isk.

You are either unlucky, have terrible methodology or hardly ever actually belt rat.
Because that is way below the average null friends get.

Saying that. Ziona, you are delusional, you can do 22 Billion in 2 months in high sec quite easily. If you are prepared to play about 4 hours a day and play the LP market, SoE missions will do that. Incursions is hit & miss, but somewhere from 3-6 hours a day depending how long it takes you to get in fleet (Which knocks your effective isk/hr down hard sometimes) & how many times there are no usable incursions.

This is why isk/hr discussions are pointless because we don't have good average figures from CCP on per hour income in any space. We only have gross figures which like your 22 Billion in 2 months, give us no idea exactly how many hours they played for that income. All it does tell us is that you can make money in Null. Which.... We already knew from CCP's gross figures.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1590 - 2014-01-30 03:18:17 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

You cannot make 22 billion in high sec in two months reliably. You maybe could scamming or something but even incursions will not give you that much unless you're poopsocking.


In null you can make that reliably playing a few hours a day. If you're clearing null belts as well you could make up to 10's of billions or more just on the one rare officer.


Surely you have some facts and data to back that up. Perhaps it was the one I gave you earlier in the thread.

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MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1591 - 2014-01-30 03:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Jenn aSide wrote:
The poster said he made 22 bil in null sec in 2 months. That's great. You know where else you can make 22 bil in 2 months?

High Sec. Without having to watch local. Protected by CONCORD. 22 bil in 2 months in 366 mil a day, thats nothing in incursions, sisters mission, thukker missions , cosmos farming, and smart blitzing.


One account? Seriously, where are you pulling these numbers out of? I'm sorry, but this is a blatant exaggeration, if not an outright lie.

Can anyone (besides Team Jenn) confirm that this figure is even possible running PVE content in hi sec with just one account?

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1592 - 2014-01-30 03:25:16 UTC
Quote:

You cannot make 22 billion in high sec in two months reliably. You maybe could scamming or something but even incursions will not give you that much unless you're poopsocking.


In null you can make that reliably playing a few hours a day. If you're clearing null belts as well you could make up to 10's of billions or more just on the one rare officer.


This is either a lie or irgnorance. You are willing to go to null to test, why not come to Osmon or Lanngisi and witness what you can do in 2 months. CCP screwed up greatly when they introduced wormholes withiout modifiying the SOE Lp store.

Open your market tab and look at the histories of sisters probes, probe launchers, and Virtue implants. The SOE ships made these things more valuable. You can do the same thing with Trust Partners (Freighter pilots LOVE Nomad implants, the new warp speed implant set didn't change that). Hell, yo don't need pirate LP stores, Fed navy Stasis Webs and RF 100mn afterburners will get you very close to there too.

Or do you think I've just imagined the last 6 years of running missions and learing what's blitzable and what LP items sell the best (omg miners/builders and industrial implants....).

You can check this stuff out for yourself dude.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1593 - 2014-01-30 03:25:37 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


I have had 2 officer spawns in 8 years.

Belt ratting is one of the worst activities you can do for making isk.

You are either unlucky, have terrible methodology or hardly ever actually belt rat.
Because that is way below the average null friends get.



Your friends tell fibs. Officer drops are insanely rare, which is why the mods sell for the same price as some supercaps. I would also like to point out that some officer spawns will just drop tags and ammo or some officer mod that is useless.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1594 - 2014-01-30 03:29:53 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The poster said he made 22 bil in null sec in 2 months. That's great. You know where else you can make 22 bil in 2 months?

High Sec. Without having to watch local. Protected by CONCORD. 22 bil in 2 months in 366 mil a day, thats nothing in incursions, sisters mission, thukker missions , cosmos farming, and smart blitzing.


One account? Seriously, where are you pulling these numbers out of? I'm sorry, but this is a blatant exaggeration, if not an outright lie.

Can anyone (besides Team Jenn) confirm that this figure is even possible running PVE content in hi sec with just one account?


You think a Vargur blitzing can't make 366 mil in one play session of a few hours? You haven't been keeping up on things then mate.

Go To Lanngisi, run sister's missions, don't even sell the ships (sell the long standing items like probes or probe launchers).

Despite the fact that SOE has become THE most popular agents for mission runners now, the prices of virtue implants, probes and probe launchers have RISEN. Look at the stuff in the Trust Partner LP store too.

That's what is so frustrating about these 'discussions". I'm not working fracking magic here, I'm playing a video game and everything I do is repeatable by you people with little effort.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1595 - 2014-01-30 03:42:18 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The poster said he made 22 bil in null sec in 2 months. That's great. You know where else you can make 22 bil in 2 months?

High Sec. Without having to watch local. Protected by CONCORD. 22 bil in 2 months in 366 mil a day, thats nothing in incursions, sisters mission, thukker missions , cosmos farming, and smart blitzing.


One account? Seriously, where are you pulling these numbers out of? I'm sorry, but this is a blatant exaggeration, if not an outright lie.

Can anyone (besides Team Jenn) confirm that this figure is even possible running PVE content in hi sec with just one account?


Heck, even with all of your bullshitly lowball numbers, you can do that after dinner. Faster even if you double up on your playtime on weekends.

Nobody's saying you wouldn't get burned out on Incursions after all that, but it's certainly doable.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1596 - 2014-01-30 03:57:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Your friends tell fibs. Officer drops are insanely rare, which is why the mods sell for the same price as some supercaps. I would also like to point out that some officer spawns will just drop tags and ammo or some officer mod that is useless.

Or possibly, my friends just don't have as terrible experiences as you seem to always have when it comes to making isk in null. You seem to have some kind of victim complex going on here. Where anyone who has ever had a better experience in null, or a worse experience in high is lying. And you wonder why no-one other than your fellow goons trying to bury all the real discussion & maths in this thread takes you seriously when you continuously call everyone else a liar.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1597 - 2014-01-30 04:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Jenn aSide wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
The poster said he made 22 bil in null sec in 2 months. That's great. You know where else you can make 22 bil in 2 months?

High Sec. Without having to watch local. Protected by CONCORD. 22 bil in 2 months in 366 mil a day, thats nothing in incursions, sisters mission, thukker missions , cosmos farming, and smart blitzing.


One account? Seriously, where are you pulling these numbers out of? I'm sorry, but this is a blatant exaggeration, if not an outright lie.

Can anyone (besides Team Jenn) confirm that this figure is even possible running PVE content in hi sec with just one account?


You think a Vargur blitzing can't make 366 mil in one play session of a few hours? You haven't been keeping up on things then mate.

Go To Lanngisi, run sister's missions, don't even sell the ships (sell the long standing items like probes or probe launchers).

Despite the fact that SOE has become THE most popular agents for mission runners now, the prices of virtue implants, probes and probe launchers have RISEN. Look at the stuff in the Trust Partner LP store too.

That's what is so frustrating about these 'discussions". I'm not working fracking magic here, I'm playing a video game and everything I do is repeatable by you people with little effort.

What is missing is you need multiple alts at multiple accounts at multiple mission hubs to game the game for this to happen. you likely need multiple mission ships so cut down on travel. Then there is exaggeraton. In null all you need is one scout if in hostile territory and a sig combat runner. on ot two sigs, roughly one or two hours, easily 500 to 2 billion per day

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1598 - 2014-01-30 04:54:22 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

What is missing is you need multiple alts at multiple accounts at multiple mission hubs to game the game for this to happen. you likely need multiple mission ships so cut down on travel. Then there is exaggeraton. In null all you need is one scout if in hostile territory and a sig combat runner. on ot two sigs, roughly one or two hours, easily 500 to 2 billion per day

Actually at current SOE LP prices, it's fair to call it 100/hr reliable. If everyone in EVE did this, it would drop pretty fast though, but for some reason people aren't swapping to SOE at all really. This is a fairly recent abheration though. While SOE has traditionally been a higher LP it's never been that good till the Stratios.

But yea, no need for multiple accounts or multiple mission ships. 1 Good mission ship out of a SOE lvl 4 agent and you are in a decent place.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1599 - 2014-01-30 04:58:02 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Your friends tell fibs. Officer drops are insanely rare, which is why the mods sell for the same price as some supercaps. I would also like to point out that some officer spawns will just drop tags and ammo or some officer mod that is useless.

Or possibly, my friends just don't have as terrible experiences as you seem to always have when it comes to making isk in null. You seem to have some kind of victim complex going on here. Where anyone who has ever had a better experience in null, or a worse experience in high is lying. And you wonder why no-one other than your fellow goons trying to bury all the real discussion & maths in this thread takes you seriously when you continuously call everyone else a liar.


Not really we just get incredibly tired of dealing with people like you whom will take an anecdote as something that occurs all of the time but, when confronted with reality, denies it.

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1600 - 2014-01-30 05:04:24 UTC
La Nariz wrote:


Not really we just get incredibly tired of dealing with people like you whom will take an anecdote as something that occurs all of the time but, when confronted with reality, denies it.

So anything my friends do is only an anecdote.... But anything Baltec experiences is automatically the true reality....
Well done making my actual point. You don't have hard statistics, you only have your own personal anecdotes about null income.

Which doesn't match up with the Gross statistics at all. So obviously something very different from what you claim is actually going on.